Ike Ibeabuchi vs Joe Frazier

I think for that run from Mathis until the night Frazier beat Ali Joe could not have done any more towards becoming an ATG with what was around. I think Joe was nigh on unbeatable in a shorter spell after the second fight with Bonavena up to Ali. If you watch those fights with Foster, Ellis, Quarry and Ali it is a very short list of men from history who could beat him. The footwork he had to create those openings, the timing he had in shortening and lengthening that hook, how he used it at close and long range whilst doubling it up was scary. I mean, he could fire off that hook like a jab and it was a fight finishing punch! Imagine? I can’t think of a puncher who lead with his best punch. It’s like Ingemar Johansson or Max Baer using their best punch so often. The variety of it. Then there was the effort he caused an opponent to use in order to get away from it. He really was pinpoint at that time.

Ike Ibeabuchi is beatng that guy?

 

I agree completely.

Who knows what Ibeabuchi could've done? He could've been anything or become another Golota. We don't know. And before anyone laughs about the Golota analogy I remember Ring magazine (Jeff Ryan from memory) saying that we'd probably seen the worlds second best heavyweight in Golota (behind Tyson) after he trounced Bowe before DQ'ing himself in their first fight. As it turns out he was waaaay off base with that one.

On the wafer thin evidence of him that I've seen I ain't backing him against a peak Frazier.

 

Exactly. This is what I’m talking about. You can turn almost anybody into Ike Ibeabuchi if you retire them after one or two decent wins before things can take their natural course.

I’m going to go with the guy who beat Muhammad Ali.

 

I'm saying nothing of the sort and you won't find a single post of mine on this forum stating that.You are beginning to wind me up with your deliberate dishonesty now.

 

He was a good puncher but, as you say, really an attrition puncher.His great gift was the ability to fire his hook and
instantly reload, ready to throw another,and he retained that for the whole course of a fight.

 

You imply that Joe Frazier did not hit hard enough to knockout Superheavyweight sized men. This Is the kind of quote of yours is where I get this impression:

can you now see how somebody might think Mcvey thinks that? Your basically saying here Frazier could only knockout lightheavyweights. Never mind that Chris Byrd was an ex middleweight.

 

Don't put words in my mouth,you have more than enough trouble forming a coherent argument of your own!

 

Simple question. Could Frazier knockout Superheavyweights?

 

I agree with this.

 

UNDOUBTEDLY I knocked one out about 40 years ago and I was then about 170lbs.The question really hangs on how good said super heavyweight was/is?
I wouldn't put Frazier in my top ten for heavyweight power punchers,but that doesn't mean he wasn't a very good puncher,just not at the very top level imo.

 

@young griffo @choklab -- Just to be clear, are you guys convinced that Frazier would almost surely beat Ibeabuchi or is it just that you haven't seen enough of Ibeabuchi to feel comfortable backing him? In other words, would you actually be shocked if they fought (somehow) and Ibeabuchi won?

 

I would personally be shocked if Ibeabuchi beat Frazier with what there is to go on him. For him to beat Frazier he has to be better than what I have seen of him. I believe, If that’s all there is, then It’s not enough. I favour the man who beat Muhammad Ali. Frazier should start favourite with odds makers on that alone.

 

Thanks, just wanted to clarify this. But on what are you basing it? In your many posts in this thread I don't think you've actually made any critiques of Ike's limitations or inabilities as a boxer--you've mostly just focused on the fact that he was relatively unproven and offered reasons why we shouldn't give him much credit for enduring a 12-round slugfest with a peak, active David Tua.

 

I agree he hasn't laid out his case for why Ike wasn't this or that .We know he wasn't fully ,"tested in the flame", but we also know he had a good chin, good power,stamina and the size / physique to go with it.I wouldn't be shocked if Ike beat Frazier.

 

Ibeabuchi looked like a good fighter. But so did Golota against Bowe. If that’s all we had on Golota would that make him a good case against somebody who beat Muhammad Ali?

Ike was big. Good work rate. In a high paced bout he held his own against a puncher in a fight where I don’t think either guy quite managed to get full power onto their blows. He had a good pace and a good skill set. But I just don’t think he coped with anything that remarkable against Tua or Byrd because they’re just good fighters. Joe Frazier, at his best, was truly remarkable. If Tua lands hooks on Ike so can Frazier. Difference is, Frazier can beat him to the punch to do it, counter and double up in more advanced way than Tua could. I believe Frazier would land blind on Ike. If he beat Ali to the punch and decked him he’s doing it to Ike too. Frazier is so many times better than Tua. And Tua matched Ike in many ways. They had a close fight. So I’m with Frazier. Far too good at his best.