Ike Ibeabuchi vs Joe Frazier

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jay1990, Mar 10, 2019.


  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I don’t think Tua or Byrd were that well established yet. Perhaps these losses to Ike could represent pre prime mishaps in a step up fight? Tunney losing to Greb, Floyd Patterson losing to Joey Maxim. Schmeling losing to Gypsie Daniels, Ernie Terrell losing to Cleveland Williams. Weaver losing to both Bobicks. Bruno losing to smith. John Ruiz losing to Tua. All these fighters lost and went on to become better fighters than the guys they lost to early on. Maybe Tua and Byrd went on to become better fighters too?
     
  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    No, you're right--compared to Joe Frazier, David Tua was obviously a feather-fisted weakling. Anyone who's ever watched him fight knows he didn't really hit that hard, and the way he ran through former and future champions in seconds doesn't really tell us anything about his supposed punching power either. There's nothing impressive about slugging it out with him toe to toe for 12. Ike ate some of Tua's biggest punches and kept firing, sure, but Frazier would fold him up easily and early. Great post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Tua landed plenty of very heavy punches on Ibeabuchi. The type that regularly put down other men. You're right that they didn't seem to hurt him (I wonder whether they played a role in his subsequent mental decline though).
     
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  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think it was more to do with the pair of them meeting their match. Both were at each other so fast Neither could set themselves enough to do any damage.

    Those punches hurt other people because they had the edge in timing against them. The same delivery, just a difference of reaction time. But when you are not quite in control, stepping up in ability, things are frantic and the space and time just isn’t there. Punches will look alright or just the same but you won’t make the same impression when there’s always something coming back at you.

    Nobody had an edge nor the experience to be patient enough. This was a learning fight. A good fight to watch. But not the real McCoy if you know what you are watching. Had Ali and Frazier fought at that stage of their careers it would have been the same.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tua was the number 8 ranked heavyweight and Ike took his spot relegating him to number 9 in 1998 after he had defeated him.
     
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  6. Truthmachine

    Truthmachine New Member Full Member

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    Ibeabuchi might be stronger with a better chin, but Frazier has the better skills. I could see it resembling the Chuvalo fight at times, with Frazier utilizing slick upper-body movement to counter Ibeabuchi with left hooks to the head and body – and Ibeabuchi struggling to land clean, effective punches.

    The Ali fights have caused Frazier’s defense to become underrated IMO.
     
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  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Number 8 with whom? So far Tua had only beat 25-2 John Ruiz who had already lost both times he had been matched remotely competitively. By then looking among his actual wins Ruiz had beaten nobody of note. Just guys who were probably not household names in their own household.

    Who else had Tua fought so far? David Izon? Cecil coffee? Bruce Bellochi who David fought twice? Like Ruiz facing Tua, up until facing Ike, Many of Tuas opponents are characters with names that have an unfamiliar ring to them.

    Ruiz, Byrd, Shannon Briggs, David Tua and Hasim Rahman all went on to have decent careers after losing early on. Ikes career was cut short after facing just two of these guys who had yet to register a worthy win before later going on to have decent careers. And that is all it is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    Well accept from crippling a teenager
     
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  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Happy?

    BTW. Tua was ranked for 6 consecutive years.
     
  10. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    That was due to a road accident Ike and that boy were friends he idolized Ike. Ike was no angel
    but neither was he the crazy man some label him. if you were kept heavily sedated for over a year,
    because the prosecution couldn't prove the charges and they were afraid of what he MIGHT do,
    wouldn't you be a affected ?? Don't believe all you hear ok
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    I'll keep that in mind but I'm pretty certain he got convicted for it. And still if he didn't, there's the situation with the Stripper at the hotel. I agree Ike had mental issues but when does a line get drawn?
     
  12. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    Of course its not "certain". The problem here is: Ibeabuchi is nearer to Foreman than Frazier having a Tua-like chin. He did not! You could drop him without a doubt.

    You give that fight no credit whatsover. Someone should almost say your full of ****** about that fight. Tua landet 282 punches, while Ike landet 332. Want something to compare "Mr number"? What about Lewis landing 102 punches on Klitschko, or Douglas landing 230 to pop Tysons face up like a sponge, besides throwing more than 50% jabs. I won´t guess Tua throwing alot of jabs, would you? Lewis landet 235 on Mercer, while Mercer landet 223. Some skulls hold up, others won´t.
    Btw, talking about no damage beeing done. Do you know Evolution from ghosttown-boxing, a fellow who sparred tons of guys in the 90s, knowing them personal? Want to know his conv. with Tua about the fight?

    "This was arguably the best performance by both. Dave told me that he cracked Ike with everything he had but the big man wouldn't budge.

    I gave the fight to Ike. He was the first fighter to withstand David's attacks and not run or hope to survive. He made a fight out of it. Ike won more rounds and stayed in charge. Still a close fight tho.

    I think Ike would do well against prime Tyson or Frazier too. If Dave couldn't hurt him, neither could they.
    "

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    After the fight Ibeabuchi went into hospital with heavy pain in the head, with them not finding what it was. Tua went to surgery as well. If someone has made his mind up about that fight, giving a **** of any credibility to both taking punches, its you choklab. But what am I talking about? Weren´t both of them roided anyway, ****ing cheaters ?

    Nobodys cares jabbing, by some called feather fisted, mover Muhammad Ali in this instance! What are you talking about? Its about Frazier getting easily dropped by a fellow like Bonavena. Thats the fact that we have. Are you suggesting Bonavena is in the punchers league of either Tua or Ibeabuchi? Another fact that we have, is Frazier doing the Jojo much more convincingly than Lyle for example. Frazier just looked vulnerable to heavy blows, its simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  13. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    I think Smoking Joe would win a close decision in a great fight.
     
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  14. daverobin

    daverobin Well-Known Member Full Member

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  15. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    ^^^^^^^ Pretty much this
     
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