Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jay1990, Mar 10, 2019.
I heard the count but Buster got up at 12 on my watch. Time it yourself.
So then you admit that he beat the count? (the only count that mattered, that is)
You were not the referee ,so your count is totally irrelevant! Bottom line Mathis was up on his feet at nine and he was not counted out.End Of!
I admit he was in no condition to continue when he got up after 12 seconds had elapsed. The time keepers count was slow. His count was nine But he should have said “ten” already.
You beat the count if you can continue. If you can’t continue it’s a knockout. Buster had his eyes closed and was hanging over a rope facing the wrong way. He was obviously not conscious At all - and still out.
The moment is even captured by photo! Arthur’s hands waving it off and Buster is draped over the rope dozing. He was then carried to a stool where he was propped up into an involuntary sitting position and sponged down for some time until he could eventually wake up, Open his eyes and consciously rise under his own steam.
You are full of ****.Waste of time talking to you.
Bent over the ropes facing the wrong way with your eyes closed is not really the same thing as being “up on your feet” is it?
Sr had more skill than Ike but that wasn`t enough for him to beat an out of shape Ali, Jr also didn`t beat anyone of note but made a Rooney less Tyson look stupid before being knocked out, Ike didn`t have defensive skills like that.
The knockdown was as good as a knockout, he was gone, that`s how Frazier would have knocked Miller out.
Mathis never beat a ranked fighter.
A knockdown is not a knockout because a knockdown indicates you have regained your feet before the referee has counted ten,which was the case here. We don't know about Miller yet,if he turns out to have a great chin he may give AJ real problems.If not ,his lack of good defence should mean he will be stopped after absorbing a few heavy barrages.
Choklab has a well documented history of, [and I'm being charitable now,] of distorting the truth,and that is precisely the case here.
Being a grinder isn't an insult at all.
Frazier was one for sure although he like Marciano could exhibit excellent power early against lesser fighters as well. But they could also grind down their better opposition for late stoppages just like Tua did against Maskaev, Izon and Oquendo. Only the opposition they grinded down was better (or at least ranked higher not getting into the argument about the quality of era's) than what Tua did.
You haven't said anything to counter my point though. Yes I have and will concede that the likes of Shavers, Morrison, Ruddock and Tua hit hard but they couldn't do it against the best fighters and that can't be disputed. In fact Tua actually pales next to some of them anyway, seeing as Shavers dropped Holmes and rocked Ali, Lyle dropped and badly hurt Foreman, and Williams busted up Liston. Tua did precisely nothing against Lewis and barely anymore with Byrd and probably didn't even buzz Ibeabuchi for all the punches he threw. I'd give him props for stopping Rahman but that was so poorly officiated (missing the after the bell punch and the premature stoppage) that I can't give Tua much credit for it even though it's a decent win on paper.
The Ring magazine rankings can be a good read but they're hardly gospel either. I could print the Rings ranking of the 100 best heavyweights from two decades ago and it would read like a comedy piece today. Popular opinion changes over time and none more so than in what are essentially opinion pieces, such as Ring lists anyway.
The ratings I posted were from 2003.
Ruddock and Morrison did nothing against Lewis so, according to you they weren't big punchers.Nonsense!
You said this;
"So I don't consider him having top end power because he never produced it against a top end fighter."
Nobody I've have ever read ,talked to , or encountered agrees with that .
Opinion pieces Show me one opinion,other than your own that says Tua wasn't a big puncher?
Long after I am dead, boxing aficionado's will still say Tua was a monster puncher.
"Nicholson was dancing and jabbing four rounds and had his good moments.
Nicholson was knocked down in the fifth round with a crashing left hook. He beat the count but was out on his feet.
Nicholson was knocked out cold with another devastating left hook in the sixth round!"
Tua vs Ibeabuchi may have set the record for punches thrown, but let’s keep things in perspective. They stood in the middle of ring trading pot shots for practically the entire fight. It’s an impressive feat, but it’s not like they were landing explosive punches on each other all night, with both guys getting mauled while miraculously standing up.
Here they are post fight:
They both looked pretty unmarked for having been in such a punchfest.
For once, take the electric guitar shaped glasses off, and look at how little they move around the ring. They hardly move at all. Ike will sometimes bounce on his feet a little bit, but barely moves a few feet.
Ali would dance circles around both and would probably KO either fighter that night in under 7. Frazier would beat Ibeabuchi mid-late rounds with that crushing left hook he’d be landing all night. Anything after a prime Frazier would make it a genuinly tough matchup.
The only elite fighter Tua fought was Lewis. Did he demonstrate his awesome power there? Yes or no.
The next best he fought were Byrd, Ibeabuchi and Rahman. Did he demonstrate his awesome power there (aside from nailing Rahman with a shot after the bell in their first fight and benefitting from a gift stoppage a round later)? Yes or no.
I don't get what posting quotes about the Danell Nicholsom fight has to do with anything either. Nicholson is precisely the second tier level of fighter that Tua looked devastating against. In fact that reinforces my point if anything because there isn't any quotes like that in the Lewis fight for example.
- Then Tua landed two big left hooks that Lewis appeared to shake off.
- As the final round began, Tua, who had never been cut, had a bloodied left cheek as Lewis, still dancing and jabbing, completed his dominance.
I guess the formidable, extremely hard-hitting, 250lb Lewis spent the whole fight jabbing and retreating from Tua for nothing. Should have just planted his feet and bombed Tua out--it's not like Tua was a big puncher who could have changed the fight and knocked Lewis out with a few clean punches or something.