Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Klitschko Bros.

Ike was more proven than Vitali with 2 better wins on his record than Vitali in his few fights so if anyone's a 'what if guy' its Vitali not Ike

Seeing Ike in person doesnt make your judgement more valid than if you saw him on TV, but against who and where did you see him out of interest?

 

Emerald Queen Casino. Sloppy, strong heavyweight who was wide open for counters if the opponent was strong and skilled enough. Byrd was not the former; Tua was not the latter.

 

Think about it, Spinks was a true blown up light heavyweight great that was also past his prime when Tyson beat him. He was not a true heayweight at all. Tyson dodged true heayweights that were in their prime because they would be too much for him. I am not taking nothing away from Tyson but you have to admit that Spinks was too small. Would Tyson blow out Witherspoon, Bowe or Mercer the way he did Spinks? No, he wouldn't. These guys were true young heavyweights that were in their peak and Tyson wanted no part of them.

I would also favor Bowe over any Tyson. He was an offensive machine that had the offensive ability, toughness, chin and heart to out last Tyson and get him in the later rounds. The version of Bowe that fought Holyfield the first time beats Tyson.

Styles makes fights. Mercer was also a green contender at the time. When Tyson fought Larry, he was already a champion and Holmes was also ring rusted. He actually had a few fights to prepare him for Mercer. These are not excuses, just facts. Mercer WAS green and Holmes WAS actually prepared for him.

Witherspoon is barley mention as a good heavyweight today so how is he overrated. You Tyson fans never give anyone credit that would have given Tyson a hard fight, if not pull of the upset. There is no point in explaining to you fans because you will not listen and just continue to call him one of the greatest. I would just repeat myself over and over again.

read above

WOW..lol he went hard with James Smith so now he would go hard with Ibeabuchi, Tua, Mercer, Bowe, Witherspoon ect? All of the opponents that Tyson ducked. Tony Tucker? James Smith? Are you serious? They were never even elite fighters, let alone being on the level of any of the fighters that i mentioned. They were decent C class hand picked opponents that did not test Tyson's heart. Mercer also lost a close decision to the same version of Holyfield that out classed Tyson. Tyson was dominated and forced out of his game by a tougher guy.

Also, yes Tyson was past his peak when he fought Evander. My point was that Holyfield was even more over the hill than Tyson was. He had lost to Bowe twice and one of those were by knockout, and he also lost to Michael Moorer and delt with life threatning heart problems.

:nut

Tyson also ducked prime Lennox and prime Holyfield even before he went to jail. The Tyson camp wouldn't have let him no where near real cometition. While Tyson was champion, what great or even elite fighter did he beat? Lennox was there, Evander was there, Mercer was there, Witherspoon was there, Bowe was there, and hell, even Morrison was sticking around.

Any tough come foward fighter is a stylistic nightmare for Tyson. Its good that you finally see it. Tyson would have recieved the same thing from Ike. He was a bigger version Holyfield. Watch him fight, damn. Im trying to educate you here kid. I don't hate Tyson, im stating nothing but facts and you Tyson fans can not handle it. Tyson was a good fighter in his prime and he will good against a fighter that is trying to move on him.

Don't expect me to reply to your respone to this thread because i will no longer waste my time in debates for close minded posters. I will be going in one big cirlce and there would be no significance. You wouldn't learn anything. Nothing matters to Tyson huggers other than his great punching power and hand speed. :rofl When i ask you about Tyson not showing heart, you will just say that Kevin Rooney was not in his corner, he was in jail, or he wasn't motivated..lol

You want a source? Then Watch boxing.

 

As predicted you've gone at Spinks. Hindsight is 20/20 but the fact remains Spinks was considered Tyson's biggest threat by almost everyone - that mattered. Tyson took him on. As for Spinks not being a true heavyweight, well Larry Holmes sure found out he could be an effective one. Bottom line - Tyson destroyed his most highly regarded challenger, heck he'd already knocked off a heap of top rated heavies by this stage.

He wasn't too small against Holmes and as for Tyson ducking these supposed true Heavies - gimmee a break. He cut a swathe thru the division and the one or two he couldn't happen to fit in you claim he ducked. That's just ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

You are talking durable men, one can't blow everyone out, and so what if not? The thing about Tyson is that he's such an offensive machine early he may well have blown one of more of these guys out, after all, he did to plenty of others. Berbick was damn durable and he didn't know if he was coming or going.

Tyson flogged plenty of true heavyweights, Tucker, Bonecrusher, Williams, Berbick, Thomas yada yada. You are blinded by your hatred.

I'd favour Tyson but it is indeed a fight i'd love to see. Bowe's an excellent fighter and if the timing was better this fight or Lewis would have defined his career over and above even Holyfield possibly

You've got some real tickets on Mercer, personally i think him a solid contender and not much else. He had his moments, giving Lewis lots of trouble etc but he's no champ.

Here we go again with primes, you jump on Tyson fans for saying Tyson wasn't peak vs Holyfield and now you wriggle and squirm trying to find excuses for Mercer getting beat by a grandad. Mercer was 30yo and had beaten Cooper and Morrison in his last two fights so he sure wasn't too bad.

The bottom line tho?

Holmes UD12 Mercer
Tyson TKO4 Holmes

What circles do you hang in? :huh

I give plenty credit, and i've already summised your matches. Witherspoon sits around Berbick and Thomas albeit with a little more offensive firepower at times but there's every chance he gets put away just like them. Hell, he might not even appear in shape, nothing new there - the surprise would be in he DID turn up in shape.

Well Mercer is bugger all better

But you run from my point, and that is Tyson isn't the self destructing impotent wally people like you make him out to be after 5 or so rounds.

I think i need a shovel. C class? Tucker beat Douglas and was the other champ last time i looked. Smith beat plenty of decent guys too and hit like an absolute mule. How come you never name Berbick, Thomas and the rest?

Basically you're just going to say anyone Tyson beat was weak as **** and tear them down regardless. I am in a no win situation.

Yeah, Holyfield was really going to have the adrenaline flowing fighting Mercer lol.

Maybe Holyfield was still recoving from his heart attack you claim the fight before

Or was it an adverse reaction to roids? :hey

Well why on earth do you keep mocking Tyson lovers on this very point?

That's in YOUR opinion, and it doesn't make Tyson fans wrong that Mike was past his prime as you yourself, after much avoiding, have finally admitted.

WEll look at the sheer amount of wrestlers that steroids kill, play with fire and risk getting burnt.

There was a bit of shuffling around and money exchanged, but i've seen much debated on both sides of the topic and really can't be arsed going deep. I know one thing, he wasn't avoiding Holyfield at the time. He'd been waiting ages for Holyfield to get comfortable at the weight and was looking forward to the money. I mean what on earth had Holyfield done to scare him? Went life and death with a Michael Dokes Tyson would have murdered? Dokes fought superbly on the night but was handicapped severely from years of drug abuse and age.

Well you run rampant around here telling us all what a great great fighter Sonny Liston was, so you tell me what elite or great fighter Liston beat? I'll mimick your attitude and say Patterson wasn't a true heavyweight - so what do you and Liston have left? What GREAT elite fighter did Holmes beat? Bob Foster? Joe Louis? The list goes on.

What Tyson did was mostly destroy a list of top contnders with a compellingness perhaps not seen ever before. It's not just who he beat, but also how he beat them.

How can you ram Liston's greatness down our throat when he too never beat an elite fighter via your standard of judging? We won't even go into you accusing Tyson of having no heart whilst Liston with 2 "quits" gets off scott free now

I'm a Liston fan, but your double standards toward Tyson have to be aired :good

Yes, but if he beat all of those and missed Berbick, Tucker and Crusher you'd be here extolling their virtues, Tucker was big and tall and Tyson was scared of him yada yada. You're bias is impossible.

Rubbish. Berbick was tough as nails and sure came forward when he wasn't getting hammered into orbit. Most come forward fighters in history will be murdered by Tyson. GREAT come forward fighters, Foreman, Holyfield etc might be a different matter, but don't give me any tough mug coming forward will beat or trouble Tyson - simply ain't true.

He couldn't even beat Tua, who couldn't even win a title!

Hmmmmm, have you seen me mention Rooney even once in all this debate?

I've always said i believe peak Lewis and Holyfield would always beat Tyson, as well as quite a few others including Foreman and Holmes IMO. I stand by it every time the topic comes up. I'd certainly feel secure that you stand a lot closer to hater status than me to hugger. You are so blinded by bias you can't even give a single tidbit of balanced credit.
But yes, feel free not to waste your pearls on me i think i've more than seen and posted enough :good

Everytime i ask you for proof of something you've boasted you have came up lame and impotent. Liston - Ali claims, Holmes - Cooney odds, books etc, you couldn't support a single one of them. Lots of hot air, with zero substance

 

First, Ibeabuchi knocks Wlad out in an exciting fight. 5 rounds and it must be it. Ike is too strong and has a rock solid chin, he took David Tua's bomb for 12 rounds without flinching...Wlad is faster but he's been iced by lesser fighters. Ike puts him down.

Against Vitali it's a different fight. The older brother is more patient and intelligent fighter than his younger brother. If he keeps the fight on the outside, he may be able to win a decision. I give Ike 2 out of 3 anyways.

I believe the Ike we saw against Byrd and Tua would've beat the Lewis that faced Vitali.

 

It's difficult to say based on Ibeabuchi's brief, 20-fight career. The only two opponents of serious world-class merit who he faced were Tua and Byrd, both of whom were of the shorter, smaller variety (in terms of dimensions, though Tua was heavy), one a swarmer and the other a slickster/mover. Both wildly different styles from either of the Klitschko brothers, who are tall, rangy boxer-punchers.

That said, based on what I've seen, I think Wlad cautiously boxes Ibeabuchi and takes a close-but-clear decision, and Vitali goes to war, likely going the distance and ending up razor-thin.

 

They were the best boxer and the best puncer in the division respectivley.

The only thing that could have prevented Ibeabuchi from ataining greatness is his fragile psychy.

 

Crazy Ike loses to both and Vitali would stop him. Ike was great at punching at a short, stationary target

 

Not true. He knocked out the elusive Chris Byrd and and was well ahead on points when he did it. How did he do that? Because he simply let his hands go in volume. Ike had the best stamina i have ever seen for heavyweight. Chris Byrd was one of the slickest southpaws that i have ever seen and was no where near a short stationary target. Hell, you can even make a case of Ike out boxing Byrd in the center of the ring as well and thats just insane. Its not like Chris Byrd was anybody, he went on to become a two time world champion after that loss.

Ibeabuchi vs Byrd

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byrd used more upperbody movement but stayed in the punch zone. he used to lean back a lot and utilize shoulder rolls. Wlad uses a lot of foot movement and at 6-7, he is a far more elsuive target. byrd wanted his opponents to miss while he stood in front of them. he let ike pin him against the ropes and tee off. Wouldn't happen with Wlad and Vitali. Infact, Vitali would be the one pinning Ike against the ropes.

Wlad UD Ike
Vitali tko 10 Ike :bart

 

I think the best puncher in the division was Lewis and he was arguably also the best boxer, or Holyfield. You could say that Byrd was the best elusive, upper body movement based boxer though.

But Marciano_Frazier makes an excellent point that both Tua and Byrd were stylistically polar opposites to either Klitschko. I think Ibeabuchi's style is a lot less effective against someone who is not there to be hit.

 

Ike was developing very quickly. He is the fighter who's ability to impose his physicality reminded me most of Liston. His skillset looked similar, his relatively slow hands and that thick powerhouse built was also reminiscent of Liston. I for one was very impressed with his defeat (and I scored it as such) of Tua and that destruction of Byrd. Those styles are in no way similar -Tua the puncher and Byrd the defensive stylist. Ibeabuchi outboxed Tua and caught Byrd -who was out of mind after that left uppercut. He wasn't "arguing with the ref", he was arguing with pink elephants.

I think that he would have went right through both of the amateurish Klitschkos.

What a disgrace and a shame that he's a menace. He had the makings of the 'sweeper of refuse' that the HW division is in dire need of right now.

 

Good read. It would be no surprise if he swept out most of the current lot.

 

The problem with Ike fighting these guys is that Ike was easy to hit. He would have to take a lot of punishment to get inside with these guys. Ike did have a good skillset and I believe he might have been able to beat Wlad, but I don't think he gets by Vitali.

 

Please, peak Tua couldn't back Ike up and he has more one punch knockout power than the both of them and is an aggressor himself, he was definatly tougher than both of the brothers. Ike had a conceit chin and could take what they had to dish out. Also, Peter and Brewster both were able to get to Klitschko and Ike is a better out boxer, faster, stronger, has more stamina and more in his arsenal than both of them. It would only be a matter of time until he caught up with Wladimir. Vitali is the one that he would have to wear down. Vitali gets hit too much and cuts easily, Sanders and old Lewis were both able to be the agresor and still be effective. The thing is that they ran out of gas, Ike went 10 hard rounds slugging with a prime Tua and didn't show fatigue at all. He goes to the body, mixes up him punches and wears Vitali down and stops him in the later rounds. Vitali was also hurt in the sanders and Lewis fight with short sharp punches.

Also, Ike is always the aggressor and you have never seen him pinned up against the ropes. With the few fights that he had, he fought some great opposition and was proven.