Ike Ibeabuci vs Jersey Joe Walcott

Classy response Jan.

 

I wonder, how many of the men Burns defeated would be world class heavyweights today?

 

The one obvious example that you have to consider, is Marvin Hart.

He might have been a world class heavyweight, or at least a world class cruiserweight today.

If he is even the latter today, then he is better than a Commonwealth or Euro level heavyweight.

Beating world class heavyweights who are small, should always trump beating big heavyweights, who are not world class.

A win over a lineal heavyweight champion, in a fantasy fight, has to be earned in the ring.

You don't hand it out, because the fighter is big, and looks good against C grade opposition!

 

Prime Hart would be a LHW/small CW today.

Would he have been "at least" a world class CW today? I don't know - and I don't see, how anyone can say that with any kind of certainty.

 

He beat Jack Johnson (more or less legitimately), so it comes down to whether any accomplishment in hat era, count's for anything?

This might be a good point to revisit the past thread "top five wins by every heavyweight champion."

Now that thread absolutely demolished Burns, but the surprising winner was Marvin Hart!

His top five were better than a lot of champions who came after him!

 

At the time you picked Burns, Wilder was 32-0 with 32 knockouts in the pros. As an amateur he had been national champion, fought in the world championships, and was an Olympic medallist. Not exactly an unknown quantity - but obviously not proven enough to be favoured against Burns.

This of course begs the question: How would Burns win this fantasy fight? How would he be able to beat a man a foot taller and close to 50 lbs heavier? Would he dance around the big man all night, out-jabbing him from the distance? Or would he out-maul him in the clinches? Or just go for broke, and hope to outpunch his rival in a wild slugfest? What tactics would he employ, to score the victory? What do you think?

 

Who is the best modern heavyweight or cruiserweight you would pick Marvin Hart to beat?

 

Very hard to say.

No footage obviously.

However he beat Jack Johnson, and we have to take him seriously as a head to head force, on that alone.

 

Joe much better boxer and in a prime prime match Joe boxes to a ud

 

You could probably have said the same about Audley Harrison at some point.

To be clear, I changed my prediction based upon Wilder's subsequent accomplishments, but let's assume that Wilder had turned out to be another Audley Harrison?

There is a history of smaller men, beating much bigger men.

Their options are not limited to out jabbing them from a distance, or going for broke.

Look at some of the tactics used by Mickey Walker for example.

 

He was gifted an outrageous robbery decision after being thoroughly outboxed and beaten up in a fight that Johnson appeared not to even have taken very seriously. If Johnson had been white, he probably would have won hands down.

That fight alone doesn’t make Marvin Hart a serious head-to-head threat in the slightest, imo.

 

Yes, later you changed your opinion - but at the time when you picked Burns, you must have had some idea of how he could pull it off. So what scenario did you picture in your head, that had Burns coming out the winner?

 

It is not even remotely that simple.

It is very arguable, that Hart deserved the decision!

 

Using footwork and angles, combined with defense.

Moving in and out of range, to counter Wilder (our theoretical version of course), essentially out boxing him in close.

It takes a brilliant man to do it, but it has been done too many times, to say that if can't be done!

 

It’s only arguable if you score the fight solely on ineffective aggression, grit, moxie, or sheer effort. Johnson thoroughly outboxed him and beat him up.