Ike Ibeabuci vs Jersey Joe Walcott

At the time Janitor picked Burns over Wilder, Wilder had literally only beaten one ranked fighter, and Liakhovich was coming off back-to-back stoppage losses and had gone 4-2 in the six years since his only meaningful win. Wilder was so unproven that it's laughable. Picking a proven commodity who beat an ATG vs an unproven prospect who was literally taken as a complete joke isn't as chastisable as you're making out. Especially given that once Wilder had proven he was more than a gangly glass-jawed joke, Janitor changed his mind.

Furthermore, he didn't show anything more than a long jab vs Stiverne. And he hadn't shown before hand. Before - and after - Stirvene, he was a wild, reckless puncher. One who was quite literally, completely unproven.

It'd be like picking Esteban DeJesus over Devin Haney. You only know if it's ridiculous or not once Haney starts doing things that were impressive.

 

It's not like Wilder was some unknown entity. He was an Olympic medal winner and more than 5 years into his pro career - not some random tall guy, they showed into the ring.

If you think Burns was an great fighter, that's fine - but no matter how little you think of Wilder, he would simply be too big and hard-hitting, imo.

 

Wilder won a bronze medalist, but he lost any luster that had by fighting nobody's for years in leasure centres. He was widely regarded as a joke. And five years into his career, he'd beaten one lowly ranked fighter who was 4-2 in the last six years. He may have had some success in the ams, but none in the pros. I have no doubts that a large amount of people, maybe even most were expected him to turn out like Audley Harrison.

I agree Wilder blow Burns out knowing what we now know, but that's a different matter. We're talking about someone who before Stiverne, looked like ****. Hadn't beaten ****. Hadn't done anything of note and you'd only be favouring Wilder over Burns based on nothing but height and hype.

I don't think you can berate someone for not buying info that, especially when it was proved Wilder was more than a lanky job, they revoked their opinion.

 

So just before Wilder beat Stiverne "most" people thought he would be a flop like Harrison? Really??

 

I imagine there were large quantities of people who thought he'd be another medalist who didn't achieve much - like Harrison - yes.

 

Look at fights where a big size disparity was overcome successfully.

What tactics were used?

 

I had never seen Wilder fight, but I was watching results on BoxRec for some guys I had seen recently at amateur tournaments. One of the guys I was checking was a big heavyweight (6-4,240) who had shown himself to be tough, fighting a 4x2 with another good heavyweight in a tournament. I didn't know if the big guy would be a top pro, but I knew he was durable. When I saw that Wilder had knocked him out in about 1 minute, I knew that Wilder could punch. I had never seen Wilder, but I didn't doubt his power.

After seeing Wilder fight I was impressed, he is fast, he can cut and create distance faster than any heavyweight I've seen, he carries his power late, and can end a fight from the first punch until the last. Losing to a 6-9, 275 pound man who grew up boxing and moves like a small fighter does not mean you are not a good fighter, it just means you lost to the only fighter in history who who is 6-9, 275, and a natural fighter who moves like a small man. And, if they fought again, Wilder still has his quickness, and power, he could win.

 

It's always funny to see Pat M gymnastics to find a reason to apply different criteria to Wilder than to oldschool boxers. For some reason Pat M believes that Wilder is a great fighter (even though he's all about technical skills, not physical attributes) but at the same time he calls Max Schmeling a bar room brawler

 

I don't remember calling Schmeling a "bar room brawler." Schmeling was more of a slow twitch plodder. I'm sure there is a story to Schmeling's win over Louis, but the real difference in Louis and Schmeling was seen in the second fight. Wilder is nothing like Baer or most of the guys Bert Sugar told you to admire. Baer was a clumsy, slow oaf, who would pose little or no danger to well schooled fighters.

Wilder is a physical freak. He is fast, strong, has stamina, power, length, and decent fundamentals. He is no Evander Holyfield when it comes to fundamentals/technique, but his power and speed make him dangerous to anybody. Wilder is just unlucky to share an era with Tyson Fury, but Wilder is even capable of beating Fury.

If it helps you, Wilder is a fast twitch athlete, Baer, Galento, Schmeling are not. They were slow twitch people who were lucky to share an era with a lot of others who were the same. If Baer, Galento, and Schmeling had come along after Ali, when better athletes came into boxing, nobody would know who they were.

 

There's not a chance in hell Max Baer was slow twitch.

Also muscle fiber type has a massive genetic component, so what's the explaination as to why all the top heavyweig/hts were slow twitch? Could fast twitch people make a load of money doing something else?

 

Right. The reports I saw explained that an apathetic Johnson beat Hart's face to a pulp and punished him as badly as they could remember seeing anyone punished, but the ref gave the decision to Hart solely because he forced the fight and did all the leading.

Revisionists on this board have been trying for years to reimagine Hart's win as proving things that it most certainly did not.

 

No, you said that Schmeling was unskilled and that he couldn't box. I remember that very well, you compared him to Galento and Baer in terms of skills.
It's ridiculous opinion anyway...

I never heard a word from Bert Sugar...
I agree that Baer was nothing like Wilder, they had much different styles. Calling Baer unathletic is ridiculous though.

Baer slow twitch...? Are you insane or just stupid?

Yeah, I love using Galento next to Baer and Schmeling Do you know that Galento was nothing special in his era?
Thankfully we had uber athlete Joe Frazier dominating Ali's era. I'm sure he was the new species compared to Baer or Schmeling.