Ike Williams vs Sugar Ray Robinson at 135

Robinson for me. I don't like Williams' footwork for closing the distance and applying the type of pressure which comes from body strength, his pressure was always from punching, and i just think he'd be outpunched, either that or outboxed.

 

Williams is a nasty character...doubley nasty if you come to him. who says the young Robinson goes that way? He does have the ability and can move you know...

 

Robinson's first year saw him finish at 26-0. Among the defeated was a world lightweight champion, an undefeated future world welterweight champion, and a former world welterweight champion. Two of these, Angott and Zivic, were Hall of Famers in their prime.

... But a priming Ike Williams...? First of all, Robinson's management didn't want him going near Zivic. I'm not sure that they would have given the okay to his getting in the ring with Ike Williams unless Williams was the recognized champ. And even then, they would have wanted more experience with offensive machines. (Back then, 26 fights wasn't the "experience" it is today.) As it was, Robinson hadn't faced anything close to Ike by that point.

There's a chance that Robinson's outside game would have been enough even then. There's also a chance that this thread is yet another indicator of how Robinson has become mythologized even at ESB Classic.

 

Oh, Jorodz were you right about a "competitive era ".Just a few of this rich pool of lightweights, who Williams had to contend with..Many who I saw Live..
Beau Jack
Bob Montgomery
Sammy the clutch Angott
Willie Joyce
Freddie Dawson
Enrique Bolanos
Jimmy Carter
Johnny Bratton
Wesley Mouzon
And a host of others, many who would have been champion in other times
Ike Williams had to fight the top fighters that public opinion demanded
unlike Prima Donna Floyd Mayweather today!!!

 

The thing is Robinson was already 1 of the greatest fighters ever in that first year when he was still a LW. He dominated Angott where as Ike had very close fights with him. He has a style that limits Ike to a punchers chance and if Ike forces the pace Robinson not only can counter him hard enough to score a KO, he can fight inside, brawl, he's fighting ability to fight at any range just looks so natural even from the amateur footage. Not only is this a big stylistic problem for Ike, I think there's a clear difference in class

Just because Robinson's management wanted to be careful with their asset doesn't mean he wasn't the already the best

 

Maybe so...maybe not.
You said it yourself, Zivic and Angott are HOF's. It's impossible to actually pick a winner,because I've never seen what Robinson looked like at the weight. No question Williams is a fighter that cold ruin anyone and Robinson was still cutting his teeth, but it looks like Williams much preferred his prey to come to him...Something the young Robinson might not accomodate with.

 

That's not "the thing" for anyone rational student of boxing history.

There's a clear difference in experience and physical strength too -and those don't favor Junior.

Go look up how old Ray was when he faced Angott. Everyone who voted for Ray in this match-up should do the same.

"Already the best"...? Are you kidding?

 

1. He was already easily beating Angott, Zivic and Servo - that pretty much made him the best from LW to WW and Williams would never be as impressive as Robinson was at this stage. Robinson would be LW champ if it wasn't for politics

2. Yet he'd fight a physical MW beast in Lamotta only a year later and win, weighing only 7lbs more. I might note Roy Jones stated his power/speed did not change when he went from 160lbs-175lbs

3. 20 years old, the same as a 1986 Tyson, a prime Benitez. Lets also not forget Robinson's emphatic amateur career that gave him a vast experience against the likes of Willie Pep

4. Not at all I can't see anyone of the time beating this version of Robinson from 135-147, he was simply that good

 

...I'm more of aware of what Robinson had done by that point than you may realize (!)... however, you said "ever" -and that changes the scope of your statement. A 20 year old Robinson was not one of the best boxers "ever."

LaMotta had upwards of 12 pounds on him but didn't have the firepower of Williams. As for Jones, well, I really wouldn't necessarily give him the benefit of the doubt about why his physicality was so outlandishly good as he aged. Although I can promise you that his power at 20 was not what it was at 29.

No matter how you look at it, it's an emphatic point that Robinson was not near what he would become when he was 20. Do you disagree with that?

Tyson's style was a young man's style; Benitez should have been even better when he was 28. But he was allergic to taking anything seriously.

"of the time" --that I can live with with.