I'm just watching Pavlik-Taylor II for the first time

PrideOfWales · Jun 7, 2008

Hermit said:

Far from you first 'joe beats pavlik' posts. Yet you just now saw this fight and think it shows Kelly has NO CHANCE? News flash. Taylor is faster than Joe. Period. I think Taylor, in a styles makes fights comparison, has an easier time with Joe than Kelly does. It will all be about scoring points. I think JT's speed takes that match up. Yet in the end, SPEED did not win it for Taylor against Kelly. To think Joe wins by that alone is absurd. KELLY WILL LAND. He is a little taller. If Joe gets close enough to land, Kelly is close enough to land. Kelly does cumulative damage. This will be a tough, close fight for both guys. Count on that.
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I just don't see it that way. This matchup is not a speed race. Calzaghe's speed is in his positioning and his anticipation. Pavlik does the same thing over and over again. His left foot swing forward and he throws the jab followed by a quick follow up straight right. By the time he moves, Joe will be circuling. It's not about direct speed comparisons - Joe's speed is his boxing brain.

Hermit · Jun 7, 2008

TFFP said:

PrideofWales is definitely not a Calzombie. He wasn't even sure Joe would beat Hopkins if I remember correctly, or he said it would be very difficult at the least

His analysis is sincere :good
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I'll take your word for it, but I know I've seen him in other threads on the subject. I'll assume I got an erroneus impression. Still to watch the Pav/Taylor 2 and come away with Kelly only lands a few stray gloves......

Kelly came out of that fight without so much as a bruise on his face, so "eats a **** load of jabs" is a little suspect to me. Kelly has demonstrated he will take a punch that doesn't hurt him as part of his game plan. I think this fight will happen and I think it will be much closer than most people seem to think. I think boxing will be better for it.

TFFP · Jun 7, 2008

I predict it will be very close too....

For about 3 rounds. Until Calzaghe figures out his little routine in there, and adapts accordingly, as he has done countless times.

PrideOfWales · Jun 7, 2008

Hermit said:

I'll take your word for it, but I know I've seen him in other threads on the subject. I'll assume I got an erroneus impression. Still to watch the Pav/Taylor 2 and come away with Kelly only lands a few stray gloves......

Kelly came out of that fight without so much as a bruise on his face, so "eats a **** load of jabs" is a little suspect to me. Kelly has demonstrated he will take a punch that doesn't hurt him as part of his game plan. I think this fight will happen and I think it will be much closer than most people seem to think. I think boxing will be better for it.
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It was the first time I've seen Pavlik-Taylor II - it's not exactly like this was the first time I've Pavlik you know, just that one fight. Pavlik is a good fighter. One that will handily put fringe contenders away. But last time I checked Miranda and Zertuche aren't about to crack the big time. I've seen Pavlik in trouble on a few occasions - Zuniga anyone? Taylor I?

He gets hit by jabs and gets sloppy at times - Joe has one of the best jabs in the game.

teemy · Jun 7, 2008

yeah but pav has THE best jab in the game

pav will kill him all day with power

Bodysnatcher · Jun 7, 2008

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Bodysnatcher · Jun 7, 2008

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Mindspring · Jun 7, 2008

PrideOfWales said:

I don't mean to make this thread on the night he's defending against Lockett but it's blindingly obvious to me that the hype over Pavlik is quite a lot of hot air. OK... Here are my thoughts on Pavlik.

He makes entertaining fights, he always walks forward. Has very good power. He eats a shitload of jabs. He's very easy to counter when he misses which is quite often. He is one paced.

To me this guy is pretty limited. I just can't see how Pavlik can get anywhere near Calzaghe if they fought unless he got lucky. Pavlik likes to work his one-twos a lot and in the last fight worked everything off his jab. Calzaghe simply does not get hit with jabs.

I'm serious here and will be accused of blind nuthuggery but I don't think Pavlik poses any real threat to Calzaghe. Joe is simply leagues better. Pavlik has power in them there fists, but it's not superhuman. He might catch Joe with the odd shot but I see Pavlik being schooled if he ever shared a ring with Lockett more esteemed stablemate.

The one good thing that Pavlik does is to throw leather all the time - even when being hit himself. This is a great asset to have against Calzaghe if you can keep your head. But ultimately, Joe has too much. It would be an exciting fight though but Joe's jab and movement would dominate.
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Pav will wreak havoc on "Slappy Joe".

PrideOfWales · Jun 7, 2008

Mindspring said:

Pav will wreak havoc on "Slappy Joe".
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Please explain to me how he will do that exactly.

Fighting Weight · Jun 7, 2008

Hermit said:

Far from you first 'joe beats pavlik' posts. Yet you just now saw this fight and think it shows Kelly has NO CHANCE? News flash. Taylor is faster than Joe. Period. I think Taylor, in a styles makes fights comparison, has an easier time with Joe than Kelly does. It will all be about scoring points. I think JT's speed takes that match up. Yet in the end, SPEED did not win it for Taylor against Kelly. To think Joe wins by that alone is absurd. KELLY WILL LAND. He is a little taller. If Joe gets close enough to land, Kelly is close enough to land. Kelly does cumulative damage. This will be a tough, close fight for both guys. Count on that.
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I'm with you on that. I'd be far more confident of Taylor beating Calzaghe than Pavlik. I've been called crazy for it several times too but that's my belief. Taylor also posesses enough power to hurt Calzaghe, and combined with his speed advantage that spells bad news for Joe. Pavlik would be a different matter but I'd still favour Kelly, but only just.

Hermit · Jun 7, 2008

PrideOfWales said:

He gets hit by jabs and gets sloppy at times - Joe has one of the best jabs in the game.
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When he was a kid, Pavlik opted out of karate classes with his brothers and wanted to take up boxing. Why? He wanted contact, not that crap they deal up in karate schools with the phoney dicipline/zen crap that has been thrown in to make it more palatable to western culture. Look at Pavlik's face after the second Taylor fight. He has said it is a mystery to him even why people think he gets hit so much. He picks off and blocks alot. Most of the time he gets hit he is at the end of the punch range so it doesn't hurt.

Kelly is a natural lefty. Nothing wrong with his jab either.

I'm sure from some posters that this fight is in the works. Questions will be answered, not debated.

Hermit · Jun 7, 2008

Fighting Weight said:

I'm with you on that. I'd be far more confident of Taylor beating Calzaghe than Pavlik. I've been called crazy for it several times too but that's my belief. Taylor also posesses enough power to hurt Calzaghe, and combined with his speed advantage that spells bad news for Joe. Pavlik would be a different matter but I'd still favour Kelly, but only just.
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I've asked people to watch Pav/Taylor 2 back to back with Cal/Kessler. Taylor is the fastest of the four. Both do the 'shoe shine body flurry' too! Both rely more on 'earning points' than damaging an opponent. Which is where Kelly gets under rated. He gets credit for his finishing skills as if he had no SETUP SKILLS to get him to that point. :deal

Bodysnatcher · Jun 7, 2008

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