Im tired of People saying Martinez was shot after Cotto beat him!!!

exactly

 

SM was only a "cripple" after cotto started drilling him with clean power shots.

and cotto lost a pretty damn close fight to trout, saying he was "shut out" means you never seen the fight or are completely clueless on how to score fights.

and even elite level fighters can struggle in fights against someone that had a style that you struggle against

 

It wasn't a close fight at all, if you were feeling generous you could have maybe given him 3 rounds. Cotto was an elite JWW, at LMW upwards he isn't close to elite

 

What's your position on Pac vs Oscar.

 

Rating the quality of a win like this, is itself speculation. There is no absolute measurement.

What we can look at is evidence, and there is prolific evidence that Sergio's knees are bad - both before and after the fight. (He was not running in training camp, was wearing knee brace, etc - career now in doubt due to knee, docs want another surgery, etc)

There is also the evidence int he fight where his physical movement was not the same as it had been in the past.

Is this proof? No, it is not proof of the type that is inviolable but it is strong evidence. At the end of the day we are all left to make our own judgements. I think Cotto is a quality fighter, but his achievement of beating Martinez at that stage of his career is less in my view than some would rank it.

 

This joker spends his life f*cking up boxing predictions and losing money on re****ed bets and then comes on here crowing like an insane person when he gets one right. Tell us your net gains/losses this year you clown.

I picked Martinez to win by stoppage. I thought that the weight of his punches would wear Cotto down as he chased Martinez throughout the fight.

For those of you who have never fought before and who DKSAB, I'll explain some things.

1. Martinez had EXCELLENT defense. Defense can be accomplished through range control and lateral movement as well as head movement and intelligent, powerful counterpunching. Defense is not limited to blocking punches, which is actually the most inefficient and poor form of defense. You act like Cotto is the first guy to throw a left hook at Sergio. He's simply the first guy who threw left hooks that Sergio couldn't avoid.

2. Martinez was never really a middleweight. He spent years fighting frequently against guys that had 10-20lb weight advantages in the ring. Just like Cotto would have to do if he faced a real middleweight. Cotto and Martinez had very similar in-ring weights.

3. Martinez was ground down through a lot of things. Lifelong athlete and cyclist (equivalent of being a powerlifter who only uses machines...no joint stability). Getting into wars with bigger men. Using a style which RELIED on mobility and athleticism. Age.

4. Martinez trained gingerly and when he got to the ring he found his legs weren't responding. If you take a minute and remove Cotto's gigantic nutsack from your forehead you will notice that Martinez fought in a way he never had. Like an old guy who either couldn't move or was afraid he's hurt himself if he moved. He was so shot that it was immediately obvious.

5. The knee MRI's came back alright. Tells me that first of all, there were enough concerns about his knees that he got like 3 MRI's. That's enough for me to know that Sergio and team knew his mobility was effected and the knee may even have been giving him pain. Furthermore, nobody is saying his knees were injured, we're saying they were shot. Knee injuries don't go away. They heal but they're never the same. He couldn't train on them and when it came time to fight he couldn't call on the agility he once had when his goddam legs worked!

6. Those of you who DKSAB and have no experience are sucking Roach's quivering meat a little too much here. First, Roach has never changed anybody aside from teaching a young, green Manny to fight with both hands. Cotto was a successful amateur and an Olympian. He's had a long career. He's technically sound. He's set in his ways. He doesn't fight any different now than he ever did. The difference is the results. Why? Because he's fighting opponents who are levels below him. He got beaten by Floyd and Manny because they're BETTER. He got beaten by Trout because he's BETTER/BIGGER. He crushed Rodriguez not because of Roach but because Jesus Christ, couldn't you outfight the average middle-schooler??? He beat Martinez and Foreman not because of anything he did but because they HAD NO KNEES. Your grandpa would have whipped your ass in his day but I HOPE you can take him now...

At the elite/veteran level trainers Do. Not. Change. Fighters. EVER. Boxing is too complex and reliant on automation. You don't reprogram a machine that has done the same thing for almost 30 years. If you think otherwise you are re****ed.

Cotto won because Martinez was done. That is all there is to it. Props for those of you who predicted it. I thought he had another performance in him, and even if it wasn't optimal it would be enough to beat Cotto, who has been close to shot since the Margarito fight. Turned out Martinez was more than shot, he was TOTALLY FINISHED AS A FUNCTIONAL FIGHTER.

If Martinez even fights again, mark it down: He'll never win another fight against a top 10 fighter.

 

i'm bored to tears with reading posters denying they watched a fighter hobbling around the ring.

 

Anybody care to explain why Sergio hasn't announced his retirement yet? I mean you doctors have already made the diagnosis for him, he's shot and isn't worth a damn, now would you guys be kind enough to let him know so that he could decide what he's going to do with his future, thanks, I'll let him know you guys will be in touch.

 

Martinez has looked poor for many years, his only good performance since Williams 2 was against JCC.

 

I respect Cotto for quitting on his knees and blaming it on hand wraps.:deal

 

Bravo. :deal

 

So he was 39 years old with 2 knee surgery, plus a shoulder surgery and a broken hand when he fought Pavlik?

YDKSAB. PERIOD!

The real question is...Is Cotto the same fight that quits on his knees in the Margo fight?:think

 

This is starting to remind me of an all male support group for those who picked Martinez to win to comfort each other. Let it all out guys...just let it all out, lol.

 

I think Martinez is overrated, although I agree that he was past it physically. It was a combination of fighting the most skilled opponent he had ever fought and his physical deterioration. I think the knee thing is overblown, but no way was it a non-factor. If Chavez were to fight Cotto, he would have Margarito'd him imo.