I'm very worred about the future of British Boxing

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by royalt0208, May 16, 2010.


  1. royalt0208

    royalt0208 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think we all agreed that Kev's oppo going into last nights fight was one of the reasons he couldn't handle Katsidis. And we we're all unimpressed by BJ and the opponents for Frankie. And there is one very clear reason as to why this is happening. There is not enough Boxing on TV and due to this without the dates, fighters are far to inactive and with less dates the cards are being stacked with more fights then the budget can handle and a lot of fighters are getting a smaller budget to bring in oppo for them and due to this are fighting the wrong opponents and not making the progress they should be.

    There is no doubt that FW matching policy is rightfully scrutinised but one thing that has to be said is that Frank needs a TV deal and a proper one (not the 1 or 2 shows with Sky a month) to keep his fighters busy and taking on the right opponents because it's hard to be doing everything I (and we) are all asking for without one.
    He needs a show like Top Rank and Golden Boy have he needs a minimum of 20+ TV dates to keep all his fighters busy and getting in the right opponents for them. Until he does a lot of fighters are going to struggle sadly. And that is bad for British Boxing because our best fighters are with him and no other promoter has the resources, ability and the TV dates themselves to really make a top tier fighter. And the worse bit is there are so many great prospects with huge potential that could go so far with the right progresion that could well end up like Kev last night unprepared.
     
  2. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    As I've said in another thread Royal, There are plenty of TV dates for Warrens prospects, theres a FFN every single week, he just seems unwilling to put them on anything but a major show.
     
  3. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    A major problem in my opinion is the number of large promoters in relation to the number of fighters we have.

    Given that they are obviously wanting to promote their own, the best fights seldom get made - there's the obsession with building fights into a real money spinner for the future..... which is incredibly short sighted.

    All that happens is that both of them fight bums until getting a long overdue opportunity or having to take a fight they didn't really want to be taking, and getting chinned anyway.

    Not every all-British fight can be like Leonard Hearns I, i.e. the two best in the division being kept apart for a short spell - fights such as Cleverly/Bellew should be happening now. It wouldn't (or shouldn't) mean the loser is confined to the scrap heap, he can come again, and the winner gets a big win on his slate.

    There needs to be increased competition and less titles - Sky should refuse to screen Commonwealth and interalphabetty title fights and basically block opponents that aren't deemed to be up to scratch.

    Sky are trying to force Haye vs Harrison, and although I think it's a **** fight, it's a positive step of sorts, they ought to be pushing for the best fighters to contest the British title - not some top 3 prospect vs a fringe top 15 never been stopped guy.
     
  4. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Domestically Sky just seem to want to fill air time rather than get into the politics of British Boxing. I can't see that changing without new men with new ideas coming in.
     
  5. royalt0208

    royalt0208 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Oh yeah no doubt FW could do better but it's hards to progress fighters when he has only done 3 shows this year. No other promoter could afford the Olympians anyway and I don't see to many of them wanting take on his other prospects but even if they could the only one that would show them is Matchroom (and possibly Hatton) but that won't ever happen because of Frank :fire But this isn't just him all of the promoters are struggling with a lack of TV dates and any genuine top prospect will really struggle to make progression unless they are an Olympian.

    FW's up and coming fighters are not getting the right opponents and that really really worries me. It's bad with the olympians but it's even worse beyond them Stephen Smith's opposition has been horrific and he is stepping up to fight John Simpson because FW needs more stars that is an absolutely crazy move and sadly I could see it ending up like Don Broadhurst-Lee Haskins. The Walsh brothers have taken on shite oppo and are nowhere domestic level based on that oppo and a lot of FW's other prospects have been disgracefully inactive i.e. Liam Smith, Thomas Costello, Joe Selkirk, Tobias Webb, Ronnie Heffron. FW is the sort of promoter that needs a lot of TV dates because of the amount of fighters he has and until he gets them British Boxing is in trouble.
     
  6. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    Stick them in with each other - problem halved immediately :D
     
  7. royalt0208

    royalt0208 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree, sadly it would probably be for the best if someone like a Hennessy and Matchroom were to fall out and go bust or cease opporations. I would never wish that upon anyone but there are just to many promoters for what is a small market and it is means that a lot of promoters are left with very few dates.

    Once again true. I can name to many British fighters that are 10-15-0 (or similair) and have never faced an opponent with a winning record with more wins then they have. And I don't need to add to that really because it's obvious the problems that causes.

    I don't neccesarily agree with that Clev-Bellew. It could be a huge fight at world level if all goes very well and there is no need for them to fight right now especially seeing as they are quite far apart at the moment in terms of where they stand and it would be a small money fight.

    To be fair other than the Brancalion fight (which wasn't FW or Sky's fault) Clev is probably the only fighter that has been brought on about right in recent times. But Tony sadly is a very good example of what I am on about, 13 fights in 3 and a half years and not once beyond 8 rounds, he has faced only 5 fighter with winning records and only 2 of those had 10+ wins and one of them was Matt Ellis. He just won a title via 1st round TKO a fight he probably trained months for and didn't even break sweat and what happens....... he hasn't been out since. He should have been out at least once since then but can't unless FW finds space for him on one of his very few shows and even then there is such a small budget that he is ended up stuck with a bum like his last opponent.

    I very strongly agree on the intercontinental issue they are one of the biggest disgraces in Boxing, there is African fighter that is 5-4 with wins and losses against shite opposition that is world ranked because he holds one of those titles, sais everything about Boxing really.
    But the Commonwealth is a title with great tradition and great potential, Sky and the promoters need to stop destroying it with horror oppnents they need to bring in decent proven Africans and they need to get the Aussies and Canadiens back involved because if that were to happen it would be a great title once again.

    Please do not get me started on Haye-Harrison it really is everything that is wrong with Sky a very very short sighted attitude. That fight would sell well and get attention but it would an absolute embarrasment for British Boxing's reputation overseas and once the novelty wore off for Boxing in this country as well.
     
  8. royalt0208

    royalt0208 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sadly very true. And it really ps me off because Boxing has proven that it is a drew and can make a lot of money but their short sighted attitude and insipid coverage really really hurts Boxing and gives it little ability to grow beyond it's current small confines.
     
  9. wrimc

    wrimc Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Some brilliant points made here royal. One of the main problems is that Frank Warren has a business model that doesn not necassarily run in parallel with a perfect development of a fighter. Frank as you mentioned has the biggest stable and the smallest amount of TV dates.

    He needs the big shows big dates because the reason he is able to attract the top prospects is his ability to pay the best offer the best contracts. So by removing the competition from matchroom hatton maloney hennessey etc he also prices himself out of smaller shows because he can't afford to pay Olympians and other top prospects that SHOULD be fighting on FFN with the money he would be getting from Widnes Leisure centre.

    This is fine if you have the big shows. In the past he has had a few big names Hatton Calzaghe Khan who could headline stadium/arena shows, draw enough crowsa and fight often enough for his best prospects to appear on all the undercards. He now does nothave this facility and therein lies the problem.

    He has a plethora of FFN level fighters all wanting fights/tv dates but can't afford to drop down to that level because he would lose money. All big American promoters have a series of shows Goldenboy Fight night Club, Arum Latin Fury, Di Bella Broadway boxing. This is where they build their talent with regualar fortnightly-monthly shows this is the kind of tv deal Warren needs to properly develop his fighters
     
  10. robpalmer135

    robpalmer135 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    agreed. Warren should have a monthly show at the York Hall which is just guys that have had less than 10 fights. All 4 and 6 rounders with maybe an English or Area main event. Just televise it on his website.

    If this was the case, guys like Bellew, Smith, Cox, The Walshes, Vinny Mitchell, Chisora, Sexton would of all had 5-6 more fights by now.
     
  11. royalt0208

    royalt0208 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks agree with all of that adds very nicely on top of what I mean. Top Rank have 36 dates with FSN before even including their HBO, Latin Fury, Pinoy Power dates. And Golden Boy have TV deals across 4 different TV outlets with a weekly show on Telefutura. And the others have ShoBox and ESPN FNF. This means you have guys like Jose Benavidez, Frankie Gomez, Deontay Wilder, Omar Henry, Robert Marroquin, Shawn Porter etc. out 8/9 times miniumum in their first year and facing the right opposition facing different styles taking step ups whereseas here you are out 4 times if you are lucky and provided you can get to 10-0 you then start to step up slighly once or twice if you look good and then fight for a title it's unproffesional, very poot management, very poor progression but sadly they have no other options unless they don't want their guys to fight.

    If you look at Omar Henry he is up to face his third undefeated opponent in a row and if he wins he will be 10-0 he turned pro July 08 and he has been out 3 times this year and every single one of his fights has been on TV, Jose Benavidez is 18 and turned pro in Jan he is 5-0 and scheduled to be out again next month.

    FW needs a weekly show where he has 1 main event like a Tony Bellew or John Simpson and then the undercard made up completely of his prospects. He needs to sign a cheap tv deal that doesn't bring in much money and then have his big shows once every couple of months where he gets a decent license fee. But sadly that isn't easy to do here where Boxing is black listed and Sky essentially have a monopoly of the Sport Channels so there aren't many other available options. Sadly the likes of Stephen Smith, Liam Walsh, Frankie Gavin, BJ Saunders, Tony Bellew guys who have great potential will struggle to make the progress needed until we see more TV dates and that means loads of Kevin Mitchell, Michael Jennings type fighters unprepared for the top level.
     
  12. hitman_hatton1

    hitman_hatton1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    agreed.

    british promoters (particularly warren) can't seem to work together with other domestic promoters to make good british fights happen.

    i'd never call haye vs harrison a positive step though. :yep
     
  13. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    It must be ego, or greed, there cannot be any other explanation.

    Haye vs Harrison is a **** fight, the main thing is that Sky are trying to force a fight - though they ought to just say that they aren't interested in anyone not named Klitschko!
     
  14. wrimc

    wrimc Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Completely agree with you the market will eventually sort itself out and dictate things its simple economics. fighters aren't paid a great amount i admit but it seems to me that Warren is creating a barrier to entry by keeping prospects on contracts that are artificially high no other promoter can afford James Degale on a million pound contract before he has ever thrown a punch.

    I know what i say in a way sounds bad i'm advocating less money for more fights. If warren fighters truely want to reach their potential they need to go through a system whereby they are prepared for world level by the time they get there rather than getting them the shot and hoping they are.

    Possibly linking up with Saureland on the continent could create some more competetive matchups though some of their prospects seem to suffer form the same problem. There is no doubt that Warren is great at getting the title shots and making the big promotions he is briliiant at that.

    The problem is that the warren method probably is the most attractive to fighters financially if they want a big payday but it will not consistently test prospects to be competetive at world level.
     
  15. ishy

    ishy Loyal Member Full Member

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    This thread is spot on. British promoters need to work together to deliver the best fights. IMO, the 'traditional' system of British/C'wealth/Euro is great as it allows fighters to find their level. If a fighter is British champ, the next step is Euro level. If he fails at Euro level he can go back to British level and then try again at Euro level after a few fights.

    Our prospects do need to be fighting much more regularly. The English/Celtic titles need to be used so that prospects can get 10 rounders against fringe domestic level fighters. In America for prospects you have ESPN/Shobox/Telefutra/Telemundo/FSN. Here we only have Sky, something needs to change on that front. ITV or BBC need to show boxing. If they can't afford the world level stuff then at least show the prospects and domestic stuff.

    Prizefighter needs to be scaled back as well. Should be no more than 2 a year.