Important facts regarding "primes" for Hopkins v Calzaghe...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Strike, Apr 20, 2008.


  1. Strike

    Strike Boxing Addict banned

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    I think people are vastly overrating how much age counts for Hopkins. He has ALWAYS thrown a low number of punches and been a clever, spoiling fighter with great counters.

    Being past his best does not hugely affect his ability to do what he does well. 6 years ago? Would Hopkins have been throwing twice as many shots? Nope. Was he greatly faster? No. Much more powerful? No.

    In contrast when you see a fighter who's main strengths are speed and reactions such as RJJ or Calzaghe. Being past your best makes a massive difference. That is why someone like RJJ has been so less effective than he was at his peak.

    Calzaghe was much faster 6 years ago than he is now, and his reactions were much better. Not only that but he is someone who has had constant hand problems and injuries, watch earlier fights and Calzaghe threw much more weight behind his shots and hit far harder and crisper.

    He has become a much more pitter patter, volume puncher as the years have worn on.

    6 years ago, Joe would have thrown much more than he did last night. 6 years ago Joe would have had quicker reactions and thrown harder punches.

    This is not to say Hopkins would not have beaten him, maybe he would, Hopkins is an ATG. But to suggest that he would have battered Calzaghe is nonsense and ignores the fundamental differences that age has had on the two men and their respective styles of fighting and what decline has done to their key assets.
    Hopkins now fights far closer to how a peak Hopkins fought than Calzaghe now performs in comparison to how peak Calzaghe fought.
    Likewise look at RJJ for how a speed and reactions based fighter performs past his best compared to how he did in his pomp.
     
  2. LightningJoe

    LightningJoe The Filipino Flash Full Member

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    If after the Mitchell fight, Calzaghe-Hopkins went ahead, IMHO I think Calzaghe would have won.
     
  3. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    i agree even at his prime Hopkins wouldve fought the same way.
     
  4. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    You need to go back and watch some fights of prime Hopkins. He did not go around throwing one punch at a time. He threw in combinations, and he worked the body with great efficiency. I'm sorry, but offensively, Hopkins a shell of his former self. He gets by on his still good defensive qualities and guile. Right around the Tito fight is when stopped being able to put his punches together with regularity.
     
  5. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I, for one, did not once bring age into this discussion.

    Even at 43, I thought Hops would win. Calzaghe impressed and proved me wrong.

    Would Hops of 6 years ago been able to do a bit more down the stretch? We'll never know.

    But we do know that Calzaghe won last night.

    Pick an avatar for me ya drunk! I hope you still write a rum review for being a good sport.

    :D
     
  6. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    for you when was his prime?
     
  7. pipe wrenched

    pipe wrenched ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    The key factor IMO your missing out on is Hopkins would not have ran out of GAS in the final stretch. He had always finished strong back in the day. Running out of gas and losing the Championship rounds is what cost him this fight.
     
  8. Strike

    Strike Boxing Addict banned

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    I need to think carefully about the avatar...I will start a thread in the Lounge. Also I will write a review at some point, because I have three good rums to write on.
     
  9. onceagain

    onceagain Active Member Full Member

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    That's a good point. I think Bernard would've been able to better deal with Joe's (even increased) tempo, but you're right that the effects of age also depend on the fighter's style.

    I'm not sure of your second point. What fights do you recommend that illustrate Joe at his prime, and why do you think he didn't do as much as he could've done to fight the best during that time. (Regardless if he tried to get a fight with Bernard, you've got to admit he stayed in Wales and in a weight class without any history when he didn't have to.)
     
  10. TheChamp1000

    TheChamp1000 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You do know there is a gif of joe c shaking his hips at b-hops ass when he went down from the low blow :D

    Can a gif work as your avatar pic?

    Not trying to put ideas in anyones head though. :lol:
     
  11. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    Hopkins left his prime about 10 years ago. Watch some of his fights from around that time period and then watch his last few fights. There's a world of difference. Hopkins was fatigued yesterday and all he did was throw one punch then hold.
     
  12. klion22

    klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yet so many people miss this obvious fact. Hopkins ALWAYS has energy for the later rounds. Yet, he was completely gased last night despite a very low output. Why? Because age finally caught up to him in this fight.

    Prime Hopkins easily beats Calzaghe.
     
  13. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hopkins prime was from about 1995-2000. He wasn't even peak IMO when he beat Trinidad. He just finally got the recognition he deserved after that win because it was his first win over a known name.

    Anyone who saw the Glen Johnson fight (which best illustrates Hopkins prime) knows last night was not a great representation of Hopkins.

    Same with Calzaghe, who wasn't even prime when he beat Lacy. It was just the first time he got the recognition he deserved. I think Calzaghe is closer to his prime, but he has slowed down, is even more flat footed, and his reflexes are slowing.
     
  14. Strike

    Strike Boxing Addict banned

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    I am not missing that out, because I have not said Calzaghe would have won easier or even won 6 years ago, I am pointing out that Joe is well past his best too and that the effects on his main assets are greater and of more detriment to him as a fighter than to Hopkins.

    Hopkins 6 years ago may well have had more gas, but Joe 6 years ago would have thrown more punches than he did last night, and more significantly the punches would have been considerably faster and harder.

    Perhaps Hopkins would have won, but then again it is more than plausible that come the championship rounds Joe would already have had a considerable lead due to landing more and landing cleaner, harder punches than the ones he was throwing last night as a man who has had countless hand injuries (due to fragile bones) and who is slower with dulled reactions.

    Hopkins might have landed his right hand a lot less against a prime Calzaghe or as you suggest he might have won due to better stamina.

    The fact is that I have watched plenty of old Hopkins fights and by and large he fights the same, more combinations when he has a guy in trouble, but by and large he has always been cagey, low output and a counter puncher who is smart.

    Watch old Calzaghe fights and the dip in speed is very noticeable as is the slower reactions, but most obvious is the change in how hard he throws his punches. And that is a concious decision on his part.
     
  15. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    but even back then he had fights that he did the same thing as yeaterday like the Jackson and Vanderpol fights(horrible fights)and he wasnt fighting guys like Calzaghe.but yes i agree that he would be in a better shape but i think he would fight the same way.