In defence of Jess Willard and Primo Carnera

I've always thought that Primo was perhaps, if you can say it of him, "more technically polished" than Willard, but Jess was the tougher, more dangerous fighter..not nearly as vulnerable as Carnera..was endowed with great stamina and could truly hurt you with his power, as he demonstrated for real, in killing a man, and not through any mob induced coercion as in the case of Carnera.

 

I really don't think they are, Dimitrenko is allot quicker. AD is getting allot of flack for the Sprott fight but Sprott has some nice skills, has been robbed a few times and completely outboxed Virchis only to lose a decision.

 

I've seen him box for the past 5 years and can safely say he is just not made out for the boxing game. He is a decent athlete for a big guy, the problem is he cannot fight.

In the era of Carnera and Willard, Dimitrenko would have been knocked out numerous times. Even Danny Batchelder would've gotten him out of there with body punches, only today Dimitrenko could complain to the referee about legal blows and have minutes to recover. Imagine if he was actually hit low without the referee doing a thing about it. That's the situation he would have faced in those days.

With a referee like that, Max Baer would have been DQ'd instantly for "roughing up" Carnera up.

 

Willard killing that man should in no way be praise-worthy considering how he fought a total novice boxer 3 different times and beat him to a pulp each time, killing him in their 3rd encounter. All it shows is that there was not much concern for boxers who may have been willing but not able in those days.

I struggle to see how Carnera's fight with Schaaf was any kind of "mob induced coercion".

 

I struggle to see how Carnera's " win " over Schaaf can be seen as anything but that over a man who had no business being in the ring that night.

 

People who quote someone killing somebody as a mark of punching power are ignorant. Jesus Chavez killed a man a few years ago, he isn't a monster puncher, it simply proves his opponent took too much punishment, nothing more

 

Well in terms of heart you maybe right I might not seen of much of him as you, but in terms of being a pure boxer, skillset and athletic ability I'd still rate Dimitrenko above those 2. He showed heart in this fight against an ex-Euro champion

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiCSprms3yc[/ame]

Did you score the Sprott fight, I haven't got round to watching it in full yet

 

I'd rate Carnera over him as far as skills. Krasniqi was beyond shot at that point and still troubled Dimitrenko until a body shot (which is probably Dimitrenko's best punch). His jab is little more than a nuisance and his footwork only serves to tire him out in the late rounds. All he has going for him is that he is big and relatively athletic.

As for the Dimitrenko-Sprott, it was a set-up from the beginning with the referee and the judges (one of them very infamous for handling Ottke-Reid). Sprott could have dominated had he pressured Dimitrenko from the beginning but he chose to let the big man wear himself out and banked on a late KO, which was disallowed by a very involved referee.

 

First of all, understand that I am not "praising" the killing of that fighter, Bull Young..merely stating the fact that Willard did indeed have power.this isn't revisionism either..it was noted of Willard in his time. pre=title that though his disposition wasn't particularly fierce, he did possess real power in both hands.
Secondly, I didn't cite the Schaff fight as one that was "mob coerced"..you are interpreting me wrongly..you must know that the mob that backed Carnera DID influence many a fight of Carnera's..stuffing his record with specious "ko's"..but no, not all of them were that way. The Schaaf fight in particular is one of those..if anything, the death of Ernie Schaaf can be attributed to the blow (or blows) that he suffered at the hands of Max Baer, and probably the fights he had after that including a tko loss to Stanley Poreda.

 

Thought you were comparing Carnera's fight with Schaaf and Willard's fight with Young. As mcvey put it, they were similar situations in that the opponents should not have been in the ring to prevent a tragedy from taking place.

Willard had legitimate power and in my opinion Carnera did too, but they lacked the technique to land crisp punches like the Klitschko brothers.

Willard avoided those punches. He had a broken right hand in that fight which is why he threw little else but the jab.

Whatever people think of Carnera and Willard, one thing you have to admit is that both men had very impressive stamina for their size. Carnera was 270 pounds of pure muscle and had no problems going 15 rounds, when heavyweights today struggle to go 10.

 

Judging by the footage Carnera was a better fighter than Willard.....much better mobility, nice jab and very good uppercut, Willard looks like a very crude fighter with a decent right hand against Jack Johnson...

 

I'm pretty sure neither were close to being as good as McCline or Grant.

I'm thinking that in today's game both would be decent tough man competitors.

 

Willard looks very good against Johnson in my judgement. Fantastic stamina. He is really moving around in the 25th round.

And everyone talks about Foreman lifting Frazier off the floor with a punch, but this film shows Willard lifting Johnson off the floor with that finishing right. I can't agree with the poster who said Willard didn't get snap in his punches. He often did.

I think any modern super-heavyweight would be in danger if they fought Willard in a finish fight under the rules of his time.

 

Willard was pretty good against Johnson.
It's crazy to judge him off his fight with Dempsey, or even against Moran where he was well out of shape.

If Willard and Carnera look **** on film, so what ? 99% of heavyweights, esp. larger ones. , look ****.
I saw Tony Thompson v Maurice Harris recently. Thompson is among today's top ten, he looks crap.
Vitali Klitschko looks awkward as hell, IMO. It's results what count.
Willard beat some decent fighters, fair and square. So did Carnera. They weren't easy guys to fight/beat.

 

Newspaper articles of the time had him showing up in town weeks before the fight weighing 260 pounds, and failing to shed any weight for fight time.