It seems to have become fashionable in this forum to belittle Earnie Shavers, write him off as nothing but a guy with an inflated record. I disagree. In fact, if you go over his record, there's quite a lot to like. I in fact see Shavers has having been a formidable contender and near-champion. Hear me out: Earnie turned pro without any great amateur background or Olympic pedigree. He literally had to hit the road to start making money. And he didn't make much in the beginning. True, he lost his third pro fight to one Stan Johnson, who would go on to have a respectable record. It was a four-round decision loss. As we know, it is quite easy to drop a four-round decision early in your career, especially if you're a guy without top management picking your every opponent carefully. In other words, I feel this loss is meaningless. In 1970 Earnie fought TWELVE times, something we don't see much of anymore...or even saw that much of at the time. During this period he was knocked out by the then undefeated Ron Stander, a loss Earnie has been derided for for years. But let's be reasonable....back in the old days when guys fought this often, dropping a decision, losing a fight here and there, was not uncommon. Yeah, it doesn't look great on his record, but if you're fighting once a month, it is easy to at some point have a mental or physical let down and blow a fight. We've seen a million guys do that. Do you think Stander would've beaten Shavers again? I highly doubt it. In 1971, Earnie fought SEVENTEEN times, going undefeated. That's every three weeks. And though some of the guys were worthless, it is not easy to go undefeated in seventeen fights in one year. Think about it. The streak continued in '72, though Earnie slowed down the pace. 1973 was in some ways a microcosm of Shaver's career. He knocked out future star Jimmy Young in the third round. He remains the only man to ever knock Young down and stop him (except for losses on cuts). He then flatttened Jimmy Ellis in one round. Yes, I know Ellis was past it, but it is still a decent win. I'm not going to try and defend the knockout loss to Jerry Quarry. It looks bad, I know. Quarry was good, and the only thing I can suggest is that Earnie was used to mowing guys down and simply wasn't cautious enough. Jerry was still dangerous and Earnie learned it the hard way. Then came the rematch with Jimmy Young, which ended in a draw. Though I've yet to encounter anyone who actually saw the fight, the urban legend is that Young deserved the decision. This seems to come from one obscure newspaper article which was, from what I've heard, from Philadelphia, Young's hometown. Who knows what happened in that fight. If any of you actually saw it....the whole thing....then tell us about it. But let's stop this **** of awarding the victory to Young without any real evidence. Earnie had another loss I can't fully defend, the decision to Bob Stallings, a journeyman known to be on the slick side. Yes, it looks bad. But again, in historical context, think about other contenders and even champs who have surprise losses. Think of Ross Purrity and what he's done. Think of Marion Wilson drawing (and probably getting robbed) against Ray Mercer. Think of Michael Bentt taking out Tommy Morrison. Think of Garcia and Norton. How about Marty Marshall? These things happen. They don't necessarily negate everything a fighter has accomplished. Then there was the war with Ron Lyle, one of the best heavyweight fights of the seventies. Take a look at Earnie's knockdown of Lyle in the second round; it was brutal. It basically took three tries, using the ropes, for Lyle to get up. Was this punch any less than the one McCall won the title from Lewis with? No. This fight probably would've been stopped had it been anywhere else besides Lyle's hometown. Ron recovered well, but he was lucky to be allowed to even continue. After beating guys like Howard Smith, Henry Clark, and Roy Williams, Earnie got his title shot with Ali. I'm not going to struggle mightily to convince all of you that he won, because I know all about Ali fans. But in my opinion, Shavers clearly landed the better punches, won the fight, and should have been champion. People will say that the decision wasn't controversial at the time, and it wasn't. And here's why: because the TV network was using open scoring. If the announcers are praising Ali's movements and flicking, harmless jabs, and then are telling everyone that Ali won the round, the average American watching the fights on a weeknight, will just accept what they're being told. Sure, Earnie could've stepped it up more. And sure, out of reverence for Ali, Shavers later said he didn't win, but at the time he surely said he won, and in the opinions of many fans he deserved at least a draw. Give Earnie this victory and his legacy completely changes. If you don't think he won, then fine. I personally think he did. But you have to admit that he did pummel Ali's head pretty seriously in this fight. Earnie was a good fighter, Larry Holmes a great fighter. And Larry beat the hell out of Shavers six months later. I can't defend it, but Larry was beating the hell out of everyone then. I'm not saying Shavers was the greatest of all time. He lost pretty badly. I wrote Earnie off after that and thought the WBC was crazy to have him ranked number 2, but Earnie made it pay off by flattening Ken Norton in the first round. Shavers had the right kind of style for penetrating Norton's cross-armed defense, and proved to be a capable finisher. He did what Ali, Holmes, Young, and a bunch of other guys couldn't do. By the time he got his second title shot, Earnie was in his mid-thirties. He almost took Holmes out, but instead gallantly took a beating that essentially ended his career. People excuse Ali for his later losses, and for Holyfield's many later losses, and Earnie was now heading down that road. Beating Joe Bugner or Jeff Sims looked good on paper, but these victories were mixed in with losses to lesser guys like Mercado, Cobb, and Tillis. Earnie could still club a guy out from time to time, but he was old, had eye problems, and was but a stepping-stone in the end. If you look at his whole career though, Shavers has some important wins, some bad breaks, and came within a hair of being champ. He put together some huge winning streaks and proved a force to be reckoned with. I know some of you will attack. Go for it. You can have your boring ol' Alis any day. I like Earnie better.
It is a solid ****ysis, that highlights a number of relevant points, which are not immediately obvious.
Ernie was a very exciting fighter. Nobody would dispute this. Yes he lost fights and yes these losses cannot all be excused. Ernie lost fights because he was exciting. Exciting fighters put it all on the line and punchers in this context are especially committed to taking risks because you can't land full blooded blows without making openings for others to exploit. SHavers left it all in the ring and took it as far as he could. I would not want it any other way. I still don't think he was good enough to be champion and there is nothing wrong with that. I liked him the way he was. That Shavers did not quite make it has made him more favourable with historians than Leon Spinks who did surpass against the faded Ali one fight later. Perhaps we should be thankful for that.
Not good enough to be champion? That is debatable. I feel that Ali's loss to Spinks and the subsequent rematch, perverted the lineage somewhat. As Ali aged the lineal title should logically have passed to Norton, Young, or Shavers, and by that I mean probably Norton. Norton effectively got jobbed twice, if not three times. He lost a controversial decision to Ali, got passed over for a rematch, then got screwed out of his mandatory against Spinks. There is a strong argument for saying that Norton is the champion who should have been, and if that is the case, then Shavers might well have got him in the ring before Holmes did.
Shavers was a good contender. His 1st round KOs of Ellis and Norton get written off, people conveniently forget that Ellis and Norton were rated very highly (in the top 2 or 3) at the time, and it was in fact AFTER Shavers destroyed them that their forms went on a clear downslide.
Good post, Shavers was a real contender. The obvious was not mentioned: he is often regarded as the hardest puncher ever. Testimony from many who won or loost vs. him confirm it. He had some skills, though for a top ranked fighter, not so much a pure power. At least he must have hit the hardest for any true HW pound for pound, but he may have hit harder than any SHW. The post was NOT too long, folks have short attention spans often. BUT: it takes almost no time, makes the post seems shorter AND easier to read to have frequent paragraph breaks. If you want folks to be able to well & comfortably ABSORB your messages, why not have whole line breaks? Folks need a breather between ideas AND visually.
Good post :good Earnie was a formidable contender with one of the hardest right hands ever ! If he'd come along later,he'd have had at least one world title belt. As for the Ali fight,I see Muhammad as a close but decisive winner. I score it 8-6-1. Yes,Muhammad was lucky in getting the decision in the third Norton fight and the Young bout verdict was questionable.
Thoughtful, well put together defence of Shavers. No doubt about it he was a phenomenal hitter with that right hand. The problem I think some fans have with Shavers is that he does tend to get over-rated quite badly by some. Earnie himself has even made ridiculous assertions about how he would have flattened Tyson and Lewis. When a fighter becomes viewed through the rose tinted specs of nostalgia by some there can be a back lash by other fans. The truth is Shavers was a one shot KO artist with his right hand who lacked the chin, stamina and talent to have been a dominant champion in any era.
I too tire of the fashionable stance these days that downplays Shavers' power. He loses to a few contenders and the odd mediocrity or two and suddenly he can't punch. :roll: Very tiresome.
Shavers was a Dean Chance hypejob with a massively padded record and very few wins over quality fighters.
To have a FEW WINS over QUALITY fighters means you're probably a quality fighter. Was there really any big hype around Shavers ?
Thanks, guys. I did indent the paragraphs but they were re-formatted I guess when I posted it. Janitor, you said it best: the Ali-Spinks fights perverted the lineage. I agree completely: if Norton had become the lineal champ as deserved, then Shavers might well have knocked him out and won it for himself. Earnie might not have deserved his title shot based on his wins over Smith and Williams, but Ali wanted someone besides Foreman, Norton, or Young, whom he wanted nothing to do with. Earnie was formidable enough to make up for the joke of the Evangelista fight. Too bad Ali got his ass kicked.
Earnie Shavers was a legit contender and one of the best punchers of all time. Hes the kinda guy I wouldn't rule out in a fight against any champion because of his punch and his ability to land it on a number of good fighters throughout his career. But he did have holes in his game which made it possible for lesser fighters to beat him on a given night. Most great champions I'd expect to beat him in one sided fights but I wouldn't consider Shavers an easy challenge for anyone because in his prime he was well conditioned and had devastating punch.
Well conditioned?? The guy gassed out faster than just about any contender you will see. Id love to see the argument for how his record wasnt padded. He would fight a string of guys who either had a losing record, or were very past their prime and losing more than winning of late only to lose to the first guy with a pulse he fought. Thats padding. Sorry, I realize Earnie falls into the category of bald muscular black punchers who seem to get people wet but the guy was/is massively overrated. Shavers fans are trumpeting Shavers win against Ellis but totally ignoring that since losing in dominant one sided fashion to Ali 2 years earlier Ellis had done absolutely nothing. He had fought a string of nobodies in backwaters all of whom had losing records. He would win just two of his next seven fights and those wins also came against opponents with losing records. Some people have even tried to give Shavers credit for his victory over Jimmy Young, who was 7-3 at the time they fought and coming off a loss (against the 42-2 Shavers). A far cry from the slippery contender he would become several years down the road. Basically Shavers two best wins are over a shot 33 year old Ellis and a shot 36 year old Norton. Neither of whom are going to top anyones list of great HWs. Norton, IMO, is one of the weakest HW titlists in history and remains the only HW titlist to have never won a title fight. Basically Shavers was a one trick pony. He could punch and that was it. The guy wasnt a good boxer, moved like a mummy, and had horrible stamina. If he couldnt hit you, hurt you, and keep you hurt, the guy was probably going to lose. He had 89 fights and look at the win/loss ratio of his opponents. When you add it up its pathetic. If you look at the win loss ratio of all of the opponents he beat, when he beat them, vs the win/loss ratio of all the opponents he lost or drew to when they fought, you will see just how padded his record is and just why he has so many KOs. Shavers was nothing special he just had people behind him who knew how to move him.