In MMA a Loss Doesn't Mean as Much as Boxing

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by lufcrazy, Dec 12, 2016.


  1. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

    31,381
    1,133
    Oct 17, 2009
    To be fair to Luf it was my own emphasis that changed the analysis from top 5 to 1 vs. 2 as I consider that the true best vs. best, but as you pointed out, being overly rigid with rankings that can be flawed or even nonsensical muddles the argument. I don't know what else to do besides list fights most fans would consider the best fighting the best-past fights and likely future fights-and I get accused of being biased despite the fact I conceded the UFC model, while flawed in other areas, makes appropriate fights between ranked fighters more expediently. I just don't want people saying the best don't fight the best in boxing because it's just not true.

    Months ago I was complaining loudly about what a bad year 2016 was, but as you can see by my bold edits, a lot of what was frustrating fans either gave way and happened or is on its way to happening:

     
  2. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,246
    38,019
    Aug 28, 2012
    You know what's weird? I was just wondering about that canceled UFC card back in the day: Jon Jones vs Dan Henderson. I was like, "Did that fight ever happen?" So I looked up Dan Henderson's record. Holy ****. Not only didn't that fight come off, but Henderson is 46, 3-7 in his last 10 fights, and just fought for the middleweight championship in October. Why wasn't this guy cut from the UFC years ago? I thought they were supposed to be elite. How's he still getting title shots when he hasn't put two wins together in a row for 5 years? Best fight the best my ass.

    Wait a second, I'm looking at the middleweight rankings now. Anderson Silva is 41, hasn't had a win in 4 years, but he's listed as the #7 middleweight? What's he doing fighting Daniel Cormier the light heavyweight champ when he just lost a fight with a contender at middleweight? This is as confusing as when Chael Sonnen lost to the middleweight champ, moved up a class and lost a fight with the light heavyweight champ. I thought that stuff wasn't supposed to happen anymore?

    How bad must the number 8 guy at middleweight suck if he's ranked behind a guy who hasn't won in 4 years? Has he not won in 5? Nope, Derek Brunson has won 7 of his last 9. I don't know how they justify putting him behind Silva.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,421
    21,848
    Sep 15, 2009
    I didn't get a notification from this. I'll reply when I get back from football.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,421
    21,848
    Sep 15, 2009
    I'm back. We won 14-13 btw, I have a dodgy knee (ACL injury) so wasn't at my best but managed 3 goals.

    I've said before my expectations are higher, I've also said I'm not interested in the practicalities of fights or the excuses behind them not happening. I'll go into more detail later on.

    I absolutely did not change any goal posts, I responded to the flow of conversation with Bogo.

    I am very rigid in my thinking, it's a personality disorder of mine. I mean sure fighting anyone in the top ten is a good fight, but not as good as the top 5. For example Joshua has now knocked out 4 men from the top ten (Whyte, Martin, Brezeale, Molina) that is good. But not as good as if he'd have faced Povetkin, Ortiz, Wilder and Parker. I do strive for better match making and I do get frustrated when fights don't come off at the highest level.

    I totally agree in disagreeing with rankings. However in an attempt to be objective I stuck to the most neutral rankings I could find. We can all inflate rankings of individuals but upon what basis do we have? They have 50 voting members so I assume they can do a better job than me. For the record, I've no idea why Vetyeka is ranked so high.

    That did not happen. I listed all 17 divisions and matched the 1v2 ranked fighter. Bogo said he expected 8 of those fights to come off. I sort of agree, I never see Canelo and Golovkin fighting but the other 7 seemed fair enough. Now out of the other 9 divisions he said he wasn't bothered about 3 of them. So that leaves 6, that is where the contention is. Now I'll go into the detail I mentioned earier:

    HW, we have Wlad v Joshua. That's a great fight. But who is Povetkin fighting next? Who is Ortiz fighting next? Who is Wilder fighting next? If they aren't fighting each other it in really good enough. I suppose in theory they could all be facing top ten ranked opponents, but will that be the case? If not I'm not happy.

    LHW, we have Ward v Kovalev 2, maybe. That's also a great fight, but who is Stevenson fighting next? Who is Joe Smith fighting next? Who is Cleverly fighting next?

    MW, we have Golovkin v Jacobs, great fight again. But who is Canelo fighting next? Saunders fighting next? Lemieux fighting next?

    LMW, I disagree Charlo v Williams is the best fight that could be made. We have Canelo (who knows what he's doing?) Andrade, Lara who are they all facing next?

    WW , Brook v Khan and Garcia v Thurman are great fights. But what about Pacquaio? Bradley, Porter who are these guys facing? This is probably the division I'm most happy with as well as LWW, SFW and CW btw.

    LW we have Zlaticanin v Garcia which is a great fight. But who is Linares fighting next? Flanagan? Barthelemey?

    FW we have Frampton vs LSC which is a very good fight. But who is Russell fighting next? Vetyeka? Selby?

    I will lay out what my expectations are, every year should see at least once the 1v2 ranked fighters facing each other. 1v3 is good, 2v5 is good but not good enough for me. I expect the 1v2 to actively seek a fight. I then expect the rest of the top ten to be facing each other.

    I don't care about business, economics or networks. I only care about seeing the best fight each other. The fights I've listed and the ones Bogo discussed are all good fights and I will watch them, but every time the number 1 ranked fighter faces someone who isn't number 2, it frustrates me even if I results in a good fight. Every time top 5 opposition face people outside of the top ten it frustrates me. That is what I mean by the best fighting the best. I demand 1v2 and I demand ranked opponents facing each other. You should want the same. Let's see how 2017 goes. I 2016 the amount of 1v2 matches was pitiful. We had Pacquaio v Bradley (ironically a fight no one else wanted) and Crawford v Postol. That was literally it, I'm not saying other good fights didn't happen, what I'm saying is, according to the TBRB only twice did a match occur between 1and2. Now for me having a 30 matchest between members of the top ten against each other does not make up for that apalling statistic. I'm not sure how many times the ring had 1v2 match ups because I stopped using them after GBP took over.

    Also, Bisping facing Henderson was slated, but a man rematching someone who knocked him out viciously isn't too bad. Silva was a Kate replacement for Cormier I think, only reason I could accept that fight anyways.