In Mythical Matchups Involving Pre-1960s Guys, You Cannot Just Make Them Bigger.

Because it wasn't boxing functional muscle. Holyfield added 40lbs of muscle, Vitali added 40lbs....

Fighters have always tried to increase their size and eat their way upto HW

 

Fitz never was a light heavyweight, He was a middleweight (and after winning the title and getting old and fat) he became a super middleweight, but he never reached lightheavyweight.

 

Yeah, you are on to something there - Gerry Cooney absolutely destroys Jack Johnson because he is proportionally as much bigger and he is more modern - post the magical 1960 mark when Ali started collecting scalps (who isn't big by today's standards but he is exempt because he is post 60's) and Jack Johnson isn't.


I guess po old Joe Louis stands no chance against Primo who is SO much bigger. Or is that pre-60's and doesn't count?

I suppose Dempsey stood no chance against Fred Fulton either?
Or Jess Willard who is roughly the same size as Lennox.

They shouldn't let David Haye in the ring with "sugar" Nikky Valuev he isn't within 90 lbs of him! Oh, wait that is post the magical 60's mark again...

Excuse me, but your agenda is showing :yep

Holyfield is only a cruiser and as I recall he has a near the end of his career DRAW against Lennox. I'm sure you can't give him credit for being able to add weight and still be effective. Man, if Lennox can lose the title twice by being starched by journeymen such as McCall and Rahman early I don't know if he gets out of the first round with Jack at whatever weight he comes in at!

 

And along with that, how "big" would they be if steroids and other artificial growth enhancing substances weren't available?

Lennox was what, 225 for Weaver in 1991? He may well have already been on the juice by that stage. If the championship distance had remained in place, his competitive weight would have been considerably less than it became.

Dempsey was 236 when he undertook training for Tommy Gibbons. He was not a tiny man, not according to anybody I know who met him. (He himself said, "I was just a BIG kid who God blessed with a big punch.")

At no time was Marciano ever a light heavyweight. Anybody who's ever read Skehan's biography knows the insane amount of training he had to do just to get down to 190.

In this day and age, yes, both would be competing well over 200. However, what RJJ did to Ruiz weighing an official 193 at age 34 is something that's happened within the last decade. Fighters weighing what Dempsey and Marciano typically competed at simply are not allowed the opportunity to attempt super heavyweight opposition. For whatever it's worth, Jack reportedly did scale 200 for Tom Riley in March 1918. How much would he have weighed if a needle was routinely stuck in his ass?

Tunney expressed the prevailing mentality of his era that 195 was the maximum optimal weight for a heavyweight. Frazier stated in interviews during his peak that 199 was his goal for the scales. Joe ended his career 30 pounds over that.

Many experts did not believe John Tate could carry 240 pounds for 15 rounds against Coetzee and win. After Carnera, Big John was the heaviest man to win a heavyweight title bout over the championship distance.

 

You get the same range of strategies in any era.

There have always been people who tried to get their weight as low as possible, and people who just went with whatever they performed optimaly at.

 

Nah, rehydration today definitely makes it easier to cut down to something ridiculous. It's a good safety measure though, IMO.

 

I must say again.

There have always been fighters who have dangerously dehydrated themselves to make weight.

I am not even sure that modern fighters are taking it to an extent that was not done previously.

 

I do think if you gave old timers modern nutrition, it should be a given that they could add 10 pounds of muscle. Back then fighters trained down. At heavwyeight these days, many fighters are at least 10 pounds north of where they should be.


Weight is as long as it does not take away from speed, and stamina is an asset.

 

What about a guy like Adamek? Hes but on weight and if anything is showing more boxing skils at HW, since hes not the puncher he was at LH and Cruiser..... Even Michael Spinks was slicker and relied on his herky jerk awkwardness and Speed at Hw rather then his feared Spinks Jinx...Holyfield adapted quite well..... In fact alot of guys who moved up relied more on their boxing skills and smarts more after moving up... Michael Moorer was known as a brutal slugger at LH, but when he moved up was more cautious and showed some good boxing skils... Toney is another one, he always showed gret boxing skills but also had enough power to knock guys out in the lighter division, sometimes hed get Lazy.. But he didnt have to worry about getting outworked at hw he just outslicked them.

 

If we use the adding height and weight theory, Jess Willard is 7 and a half foot tall!

How does this effect the modern fans assessment of his head to head ability?

 

A whole extra foot for Willard? Was the average WWI era Amrican male under five foot tall?

 

:roll: