In terms of personality, the least likable boxers are....

Yeah - but I do find the moral dilemma of these dual perspectives quite interesting.

I suppose, if we really thought about it, there are probably a fair few people noted for their works, who were either total sh!ts, at the time, or went on to be nefarious.

I've been able to, in the main, focus on the works and the attitude to the works, and treat the personal/domestic side as another story. If one doesn't do this, it makes it difficult to be objective about the professional achievements of notable practitioners.

Monzon typifies this duality in a very clear way. Cool as ice in the ring; total fireball outside of it. Mayweather is the same - Total composure in the ring; intemperate outside of the ring (although nowhere near as a bad as Monzon).

One of the reasons I couldn't stand Naz is that it always seemed to me that he brought his irritating personality from outside the ring with him to the ring.

Each to their own, I guess...

 

I can cleary c ur point

 

The thing about Monzon that I liked so much was that almost unnatural cool of his,...so unusual in a Latin athlete...perhaps only Sal Sanchez comes to mind as his equal there. Back in the 70's, aside from the boxing magazines (which I compulsively bought) there was precious little to be learned about your boxing heroes, especially Monzon, it seemed. His cold disdain for damned near anyone outside of his immediate circle was one reason for this...he was quite unapproachable and remote. I thought of him back then as I do today, ...as the Clint Eastwood of boxing champions. Monzon was very cool in a way that Ali, Duran, Leonard and others sure as hell weren't....talk of disdain, watch the interview immediately after the 1st Jean-Claude Bouttier bout, which I saw live back then. Cosell loved to interject himself into his interviews with all the top fighters whose bouts he covered...but in his Monzon interview, hell, Monzon didn't even look at him, never mind interact with him, even briefly. Cosell would ask Carlos's interpreter a question, and Monzon would aim a dead stare at the interpreter and answer in Spanish...paying no mind to Humble Howie. I was aware, from what I read in the mags that Monzon wasn't a very nice guy to the press, and that he got shot by his wife at the time, but that was it. I was, and still am a huge fan...sorry about the wife murder, but hey, he paid the price, and I guess McClellan paid the price too,...though I'm sure that Nigel Benn didn't exactly appoint himself the Avenger of Dogs.

 

Love this line!

 

Love this line!

 

Monzon was already being arrested for beating his wife and his girlfriend when he was champion, and this was being reported in American newspapers too.
He was often being arrested or accused of beating civilians up too.

 

I think your previous comment about Monzon "straightening guys out" outside the ring for "taking liberties" illustrates how far you go to give him a pass.
You even compared him to yourself, saying you'd probably do the same.

Since we don't actually know the full details of the incidents where he was arrested for beating up men, it's interesting how you lean towards taking Monzon's side as far as that goes.

In light of his serial woman-beating culminating in a murder, I'd probably err on the side of assuming Monzon something of psychopathic bully in general, a man prone to irrational violence outside the ring, and the males he smacked about probably did not all have it coming to them either.

Maybe Carlos Monzon was nothing like you. Maybe you're just projecting some noble or reasonable qualities onto the man.
I don't know. It's just a thought.

 

I never had a problem with Naseem Hamed's personality.
I always assumed his whole act was tongue-n-cheek.
He was an exciting fighter too.

I positive like Tyson Fury. Not sure why people tend to hate him.

Chris Eubank, I was always neutral on him when he was fighting. Now, 20 years later, with him back in the boxing world with his son, I'm thoroughl sick of him and his deluded mindset. He seems to think he was a far greater fighter than he ever was.

 

I think Naz definitely played up for the cameras, but there were a lot of negative stories about how he treated people outside of the ring even in the early days. In comparison to Eubank though, I always got the impression that some of his antics were more self-conscious, while Eubank is/was genuinely bonkers and would be pulling the same **** regardless of whether he was a boxer or not.

His public persona take a big knock with the split from Ingle, which although there are two sides to every story, painted Hamed as an ungrateful egomaniac.

As often happens, the lines between the "Prince" character he created and the "real" Naseem Hamed became increasingly blurred over time, which was exacerbated by the people around him. It became more and more difficult to root for the guy later on in his career, speaking as someone who was a huge fan early on.

 

Let me ask u a question.
In ur lifetime have u ever had to straighten someone out for pushing u too far..disrespecting you or whatever the case may be? If so does that now make u a monster? Come on man.
As far as cracking a photographer u see that all the time with celebs and athlete's.
These guys get in ur face and hound the **** out of people invading there privacy.
So yea I did take Monzones side on that rite or wrong.

 

Excellent post as usual my man

 

I understand your point. Yes, I have been pushed to straighten someone out, as you have, rightly or wrongly. I can assume neither of us are monsters. I know I'm not, and I trust you're not.

But in Monzon's case you weren't there, so you don't know. You choose to imagine a scenario where Monzon acted within reason, despite the fact that he's a proven psychopath.
And it wasn't only a photographer, he was arrested in Argentina a few times for hitting civilians, and dodged a few arrest warrants too.

The truth is, there was probably nothing nice or reasonable about Monzon. He was a serial woman beater, a killer. He was a monster.
So I see no reason for him to be defended on any act of violence he committed outside the ring. By proving himself a cruel and murderous psychopath he forfeits the benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned.

He was a great fighter though. There's absolute no problem with admiring his skills and qualities as a fighter. He was brilliant.

 

Good post.
I agree with that.

I felt that some people took an instant intense dislike to him, due entirely to taking his bragging too seriously (when in fact it was mostly funny), and oftentimes I think there was a racist tinge to the hatred, here in the UK. I know there was, in fact, because it was openly expressed.

Hamed, for all his flaws, was a great showman. As a fighter it's a shame he went to pieces following his first defeat. And that was a sign too that the lines had become blurred. He'd started to believe his own hype more than anyone, and when Barrera beat him so soundly he obviously had nothing to fall back on. His whole existence in boxing had become based on the massive outsized ego.

 

Was this front page news or making major headlines, at the time?

The only thing I remember coming up as vaguely significant news was the photographer incident and, even then, I don't remember it being treated as though it were a scoop. The incident itself had occurred in the 60s. I couldn't even tell you when the victim made his complaint but, nearing the end of Monzon's career (middle of '76), it had been judged upon and a jail sentence was handed out to Monzon. I don't think Monzon was arrested, due to an appeal. I am not sure what the final outcome was beyond that.

But, a year later, he was fighting Valdez again and then retiring.

Monzon's bad behavior, might well have been getting a little coverage in the papers but, until the murder case in '88, I don't think he was huge news for his out-of-ring life; most of the reports being second-hand, coming out of Santa Fe, Argentina. The murder case obviously saw greater scrutiny of his outside-of-the-ring troubles but, it's really only then that the darker side of Monzon became more widely reported and known about.

 

No, not major headlines.
But then Carlos Monzon wasn't exactly a major star in the Anglophone world. He spoke no English. He boxed mainly in South America and continental Europe. I think he fought in the USA just once.

I'm not saying boxing fans of Monzon should have been fully aware of his arrests. But it made the press.

It seems Monzon fans loved his cool (cold?) persona ... his detached, disinterested, cold, unemotional and disdainful persona ... and still do (admiring his "Clint Eastwood"-ness) .... Fair enough. There's nothing wrong with that, but ...

It turns out Carlon Monzon was an actual psycho all along.
This, I would think, we could all agree on.