In terms of talent/skills/ability who is better than Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

Learn to understand your own writing. You said he might be THE BEST in terms of defence. Whitaker was clearly superior in all matters defence-related.

 

Floyd's two best opponents were Castillo and Oscar. He was unconvincing and underwhelming against both. Looked amazing against lesser fighters though. His best win/performance taking level of opposition into account was Corrales - is that proof of one of the best fighters ever?

I think not.

 

Pep should rate higher than both Whitaker & Mayweather.
I agree Pea is higher than FMJ tho.

There was never a better boxing artist than the Pepster.

 

Agreed. In my book, skill, talent and ability are only measured by RESULTS. Not by ducking the big guns or hand-picking your opponents to the purpose of not exposing your own flaws.

So, Pernell Whitaker, Lennox Lewis, Julio Cesar Chavez, Joe Calzaghe, Manny Pacquiao are a few names that come to find from the somewhat recent past. Certainly, Mayweather has a chance to be included in this group.

 

Depends how you look at it tho, I thought he showed a lot of grit & heart vs Castillo in the 1st fight & the injury claims seem valid... I thought he put on a controlled boxing clinic in the rematch injury free from about rd 7 onwards, he practically made Castillo`s pressure void after splitting a few early rds with him figuring him out & that was peak Castillo, not a shabby fighter by any means.

I thought he looked good vs the bigger DLH at 154, I fancied DLH in that fight due to the size + experience but IMO Mayweather showed his class when he needed it most, from rd 9 onwards he showed the difference in skill level & left Oscar standing, especially rd 11, man against boy was what thru my mind when I was praying for DLH to get the W.
He remained very calm when a lot of guys would have got careless... I enjoyed the fight from a technical point of view also.

:good

 

I said it could be argued, Whitaker isn't 'clearly' better, Mayweather in some way's is defensively better, his parrying is superb, overall I rate Whitaker as having the better defense though

 

So Castillo was his best opponent despite the fact Corrales beat him HE clearly beat both anyway. As for DLH should we forget DLH typically puts on 15lbs in-between weigh in and fight time and likely outweighed FMj by 20lbs? Yet still got schooled start to finnish? (btw if you want to dispute that please post a round DLH clearly dominated because he didnt)

As for Corrales he was a champ, 35-0, P4P and destroying everyone in his path before and after, both his SFW and his LW achievements are outstanding. And yes FMJ-Corrales was a legacy fight and a 1 sided master class

As for Whitaker beating Nelson and Chavez, FMJ beats them both too, especially as both would be coming up in weight, perhaps not quite as convingingly as Whitaker though

 

FMJ hasn't fought the greatest fighters and he is missing names BUT the exact same can be said for Ray Robinson and no one holds that against Ray

 

He is definitly a top defensive fighter i wouldnt quite have him as the best. I would have him in the top 10 defences ever. And as afew of you guys will know i like to think i know abit about defence.

This is a controversial statement to say the least. Pep arguably the greatest 'boxer' ever.

Hearns is arguably the greatest offensive boxer ever.

I would like you to explain why FMJ is better than these two overrall.

I disagree strongly i would like to see your reasoning behind it.

i dont see the similarities between benny and FMJ and think benny skill wise is better.

 

First Castillo fight:

Floyd lost. Maybe he was genuinely injured. He still lost, but the verdict is not as damning as it would be if he was indeed hindered by injury.


Second Castillo fight: (cut n paste job)

That fight is one I would bring up whenever discussing Floyd's apparent greatness. Yes, he did win the decision justly that time. But considering the doubts over the score and his own quality following the first fight, I feel as if an all-time elite fighter could've put Castillo to the sword in a more emphatic way. Floyd outboxed him on the move to a a relatively comfortable decision in a dull fight. He couldn't at the second attempt produce a career-best virtuoso Gatti-like performance against a fighter of the standard of Castillo, who was a step above Gatti but a step below one of the very best of his era. The best fighters that Whitaker fought before he was too far past his prime to produce the goods were Nelson and Chavez - and he produced technical masterclasses and near shut-outs. And even then, Nelson '90 and Chavez '93 were better fighters than '02 Castillo and '07 De La Hoya.


De La Hoya fight:

Though I always notice that Floyd's performance has become a retrospective masterclass. That was a very close fight, no matter how you score it. I haven't bothered watching it in ages because it's not a favourite of mine by a long shot, but I can see why a Mayweather UD could've been given. Alternatively, I could easily see why someone would give a draw. It was one of Floyd's worst ever performances, and it came in his biggest fight. For the first half of the fight, he seemed inhibited by Oscar's jab and physical presence - and while Floyd was near-prime, Oscar was yearsinto his decline. This was a ghost of peak Oscar. And when that ghost gassed, Floyd eventually came to life. Again, not with an emphatic and impressive vintage performance like Jones gave us against Toney or Hopkins produced against Trinidad, but a lethargic showing which was the absolute minimum required to scrape through.

 

Corrales beat Castillo in 10 rounds in a close thriller, then got KO'd in 4 rounds by him.

I don't really rate Corrales. Good fighter, not great. Not one of the elite of the era by anyone's standards. Great performance by Floyd, not a legacy fight by a long way.

Oscar got schooled from start to finish by Floyd??

That is an absolutely nightmare of a comment. You must be blind!

 

Slightly off topic but how many fighters in the history of put in top level performances against a decent opponent, 24lb above there best weight. I can't think of that many and sure mayweather wasn't great and oscar was past best but 154 is a weight mayweather doesn't belong at, it was a decent win IMO.

Anyway to the queston at hand, is pretty difficult to answer, if we take the mayweather when he was at 130 he was an amazing fighter. At that weight skills wise he was right up there with any, a decent resume as well, corrales and genaro hernadez where damn good fighters and he never lost a round to either and manfredy, carlos hernadez and jesus chavez where all good level opponents. To not beat about the bush i thought he was brilliant there and proved his skills against a decent level of opposition.

Once mayweather left there however it goes downhill, he had a starting point for a truly great career when he left super feather but he has never reached them high heights again, sure he has some good wins in castillo, oscar, hatton, judah etc and some amazing performances but not really enough of either to be held in the top echelons of the sport. He's got the talent but hasn't proved it enough above 130 to be consider truly great above that weight.

He can change that though in my opinion, there are fights out there for him that can do, namely pacquaio, i'm hoping after marquez if he wins he will fight mosely whilst pac fights cotto, if both win then next summer mayweather v pac. If he can win those 3 fights and look as good as he can do then that answers a lot of questions, if not his career above super feather will always have an asterik next to not only his achevments but his ability IMO. I hope mayweather steps up to the plate, he's one of my favourite fighters but he has to prove his brillance in the ring against the best if he wants to be remember as one of the best

 

1. I won't get sie tracked on this, but I was basically saying he's amongst the best

2. I'll pick out the weaknesses of HEarns and Pepp to make my point. Hearns had poor defense at mid/close range, had weak match stick legs, and was just weak inside, he kept his chin high in the air. Pepp simply wasnt as physically gifted as a Mayweather, in terms of offense and speed FMJ looks better, defensively its close

3. Again I'll pick out the weaknesses of these opponents to make my point. Arguello has poor footwork/defense/speed, Armstrong boxing skill isn't that special and he's quite predictable, Chavez has inferior skill/speed/defense and proven holes in his game, Hagler is the best of this group but was outboxable, had a far worse defense, less speed, worse shot picker, P4P just a lesser boxer

4. Really what does Benny do that Mayweather doesnt? Because Mayweather does things Benny doesnt. Benny was good at keeping range but had an inferior defense, no left hook (which is odd because he looks likes hes setting up counter hooks at times) and couldnt counter as effectively. Like many others Benny doesn't have the physical abilities speed/stamina/reactions of a Mayweather. Benny has very similar movement and feinting techniques though.

 

fair enough we pretty much agreed

i strongly disagree that Maywetaher was better than them

again i disagree

How much have you saw of benny out of intrest