In terms of talent/skills/ability who is better than Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

1. Robinson did face quality guys but he simply didnt fight the best of his era and thats undeniable. He didnt face Holman Williams, Cocoa Kid either

2. Marshall was beating Lamotta the same time Ray was, Marshall could make 160 and only competed a little above that weight, why not fight the man who beat Lamotta?

What about Moore who beat Marshall at 162? Why not face him instead of 5fights with Lamotta?

3. But SRR was competing in the MW division too against the likes of Lamotta, are you saying he was cherry picking his MWs

4. Mayweather fought everyone at 130-135 cleaning house, the only time you can accuse him of 'cherry picking' is in his 3rd-4th divisions (he still beat 3 of the linear champs). Leonard also cherry picked in his 3rd division and didnt face the best there, no doubt about it, theres no Bomber Graham, Kalambay, McCallum, Watson, Benn etc etc

I don't blame any of these fighters for their actions, they all took the biggest money fights and didnt bother with hard challenges that were not financially rewarding, although note at 1 stage a Burley fight was Robinsons biggest money fight to date and it wasnt made

 

LOL@Mayweather cleaning house at 135.

 

Nice way to cherry pick 1 part of my post, but he beat the best 2 Linear Champions at LW from 2000-2005 and incidently Corrales was reported as above the SFW limit in their fight but they fought anyway, so technically it was above the 130lb limit and a LW fight

 

Yeah, yeah and Corrales weighed 160 on fight night so really he was a legit middleweight, where Floyd also cleaned house.

Quite simply, Floyd did not clean house at 135. To claim so is bull****. I don't even think he cleaned house at 130, but you've got a better argument there.

Oh and I'd argue that Stevie Johnston is better than Jose Luis Castillo and Diego Corrales. Heck, Artur Grigorian might have been too.

 

Ok 135 was embellishing the point, but then again he beat the clear clear no1, didnt have to rematch Castillo either, could have run from the rematch like some have done in close fights, mentioning no names *cough* Delahoya, Leonard, Calzaghe *cough*

The only other name at the weight was Stevie J but he was inactive after JLC and he didnt do anything other than lose to another Castillo victim a few years later

 

What did JLC do post-JLC other than lose to Lazcanno?

Grigorian was clearly beat by Freitas who Corrales stopped, so I'd like to see your argument on how he was better than Corrales on his Euro-bum tour

 

That is true Marshell beat Jake around that time...but that was his last fight at below the limit. He by definition was a light heavy after that and spent a lot of time well above the middle limit.

And really you could say those guys werent even really in his era..They all retired before 1950 or were totally shot around that stage, when Ray was becoming a true superstar.
Thats like giving Floyd **** for not fighting Stevie Johnston, Mosley or Tszyu when he was emerging at 130.

Mayweather missed Casamayor and Freitis dont forget...and I guess Spadafora, as much as it pains me to say it and dont jump down my throat for it. I guess you could say Floyd could have reversed that sparring session that Floyd haters at the time jumped all over.
I dont think he truly cleaned out either division but he was certainly the man in both.

Im not going to defend what Leonard did post Hagler because it doesnt matter much when I consider him alltime.
He came back to beat Marvin after a long layoff and eye trouble..what he did before this is much more important because he beat prime versions of Hearns, Benitez and Duran..and despite the question marks over the form and fitness of Wilfred and Roberto you cant hold that against Ray.

What Floyd did before he "cherry picked" (your words not mine) is nothing in comparison.

 

At his best a few years earlier he looked the ****...Possibly better than Diego, hard to say with the level of opposition he was facing.

 

Both Johnston and Grigorian were well past their primes when they lost.

But I think Johnston beat Castillo twice and Grigorian with his style might have beaten him too. A Castillo fight with Grigorian around 2000 would have been interesting.

 

1. I'm sure Marshall would have made a 160 limit for an SRR fight, he wasnt fighting for titles so he didnt have a weight limit to make but wasnt far off the limit

The fights that should have happened though were Burley/Williams/Cocoa though

2. To a degree, I see it as similar to the FMJ situation though, in that SRR was choosing high reward fights, instead of the best of the best big risk, medium reward

3. Floyd does get accused of avoiding Tyszu who he talked about fighting, its not his fault Tyszu lost to Hatton and he beat Hatton instead. The winners of Mayweather-Gatti and Hatton-Tyszu should have fought in Nov 2005 but Hatton didn't follow the plan.

He gets critisesed for not facing Mosley but he did call out Mosley at 135 when he was at 130 but Mosley went to fight DLH, he also tried to fight him in 2006.

And some call

4. Casa and Freitas were just establishing themselves when FMJ beat JLC instead. Spadafora got schooled by Dorin who had his ribs smashed by Gatti. Your right FMJ is accused of ducking them

5. I gave Leonard a world of respect and rate him very high head 2 head, his championship career is very short though and there are names missing. I do wonder if Leonard had managed to do better dominate/beat Duran first time, if his legacy would be seen as weaker

Mayweather's best weight was 130-135 and he cant help it the best names from 130-135 were Castillo, Corrales, Manfredy, Chavez and not Hearns/Duran/Benitez. He did try to get a Hamed fight at 128 and a Mosley fight at 135, but he wasnt a draw for these fighters back then

 

If Floyd fought guys the calibre of McGirt, Tito, DLH and Chavez in his third or second or any division he calls home, I' sure you'd find few complaining about him.

The issue of cleaning out divisions is not so much an issue as facing a high level of competition.

For the most part though, I do think Floyd has been unfortunate in that there hasn't been that great a calibre of opponents to face during his prime.

I hardly think guys like a 40 year old Mosley and Miguel Cotto or an aging Juan Manuel Marquez are the guys that are going to prove to us that Floyd belongs with Duran, Leonard and co.

 

Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker, Willie Pep and Ray Robinson all fought a higher standard of opposition than Floyd. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. You can pick through their careers and say dodged this, got a pass on that, etc etc. But the fact is these men proved it against better fighters more often. There's no other way to look at this. If Mayweather beats Marquez, Pacquiao and Mosley before he retires, he would merit inclusion in that sequence of greats. Right now, he just doesn't.

 

Judah is the modern McGirt equivilent (not as good but none the less), Hatton is the modern Chavez equivilent (not as good but none the less), FMJ beat DLH. Whitaker didnt face a DLH/Tito until he was well into his 30s (34/36?), Floyds 31/2? Tito is a huge name but he honestly isnt that good

Floyd's competition from 130-135 is certainly on par with Whitakers 135-140 comp.

If Pacquaio beats Cotto and FMJ faces him, that would be every bit as big as Chavez-Whitaker and certainly no gimme.

Whitaker's title run at WW from McGirt to DLH (94-97) was pretty average, Vasquez was a quality win but he wasnt the best at 154

Floyd could build a bigger better legacy than Whitaker but for the record I won't rate him above Whitaker if he does because Whitaker is just that bit sweeter

 

I don't doubt Pac-Floyd would be hyped as the greatest showdown of all time, but I simply don't see Pacquiao being on Chavez's level. Azumah Nelson maybe, but definitely not Chavez.