In the ATG sense, who is better? Duran or Leonard?

I might have ranked Leonard over Duran if he'd consummately beat Hagler. I had Hagler ahead 2 points in the Leonard fight.

 

I had Hagler ahead by 3 points, and the latest frame by frame analysis on youtube confirms we were right all along, with room to sparee

 

If you scrutinize their records and achievements, it's going to be Duran. Leonard never truly cleaned out a division the way Duran did before moving two divisions up to take on two of the p4p best fighters in the world and giving both trouble, let alone beating a prime Barkley when your nearly a decade past your prime. Leonard was supremely skilled, beat some tough opposition and managed to steal Hagler's crown in his first comeback fight, but that pales in comparison to what Duran achieved in the ring.

 

Duran is a consensus top 10 fighter of all time by most analysists , he is the greater fighter and Leonard himself admitted as much.

 

Leonard, I think. Duran was great of course, but for the overwhelming most part his victories are lower-tier than Leonard's. He was also very lucky and exceptionally well-moved to happen into title shots at his advanced age(s) to dethrone either neophytes (Moore) or those who never met a right hand they wouldn't stop with their face (Barkley). Duran is a great fighter, but a painfully overdone legend I'm afraid.

 

Leonard clearly ahead for me, both head-to-head and achievement-wise. Especially that Duran's win was a gift decision, not an actual victory. Far more controversial than Leonard's win over Hagler.

 

Which Duran victory was a gift decision?

 

To be fair to Leonard, it's hard to think who else he could have beaten than Benitez, Duran and Hearns at welterweight. He unified the title and while his reign was relatively short, he left the division as an indisputably great welterweight who'd established himself as the undisputed no. 1 there.

I personally have Duran ahead of him p4p all-time so not disagreeing with your placement, just the point about Leonard not cleaning out his division.

 

Duran based on resume and p4p considerations. Plus h2h, I count Duran's victory as the most important fight of their fights, and Duran won. Plus Duran was the more natural fighter.

If you go based on the top 4 names on a resume only, SRL clearly comes out ahead imo. Talent wise, I think SRL was the more naturally talented of the two.

 

Duran by a large margin. To put it in perspective, Duran had been champion for 6 years and 12 defenses before he moved up in weight to challenge RL. Roberto knocked out 10 straight challengers including DeJesus 2x.
Then he beats Palomino and Leonard.

On the flipside Ray Leonard had some great high-profile wins. The fight New Orleans didn't cover either fighter with Glory. Duran was disgraceful in quitting the way he did but Leonard didn't exactly dominate or burn up the canvas himself.
The first Hearns fight was a great win. Can't take anything from that that was a first-tier win against a great fighter. His greatest win. Benitez was a great win. The Hagler fight was a great performance even if you think he lost. He took punches we didn't think he could take. Overall Ray had less than 40 fights. Duran was 70-1 55KOs when he took Ray's title. By 34 or 35 years old Sugar Ray was finished. Duran went on to win the middleweight title at 37. Still to this day the only lightweight to win the middleweight title.

The argument for Leonard is a weak one.

 

It's not weak at all. You seem to place more importance on length of "tenure" as champion than the actual strength of opposition. Leonard absolutely outshines Duran in that way. I place more importance on quality than quantity. There's more than enough there to argue for Leonard.

 

i scored fight one 8 - 6 -1 for Duran

fight two was inconclusive

 

I'm sorry but Leonard didnt have enough fights

wins over Terry Norris & Micheal Nunn would have made a believer out of me

 

It is easily Duran. Duran fought more fights than Leonard ever fought when he beat Leonard.

 

I wouldn't call the argument for Leonard weak; his resume may lack depth compared to Duran, but it doesn't lack substance and there just aren't that many fighters across any weight class, that can rival SRL's Top 4 wins considering who his opponents were at the time he beat them.

Duran's overall dominance, longevity and his own deep resume which includes a more impressive signature win, puts him over the top for me but definitely not by a large margin if we're really being fair.