In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

I'm going to say this one more time as clearly as possible. If we are considering oppenets as much as has been posted thus far, the criteria should be: The opponents level (all time great, great etc.), where the opponent was in his career-because I could have beaten the Ali that fought Berbick, how succesful/convincing was the win. On that basis, INMO SRL beat 2 possibly 3 fighters which qualify. Benitez, Hearns 1 and maybe the infamous NO MAS Duran 2. NONE of his other fights were decisive wins against top level opponents in- or near- their prime. I will bump him higher for the first Duran fight which he-barely-lost. But Ayube kalube, Donnie and Marie Lalonde and co. are not up to snuff. Jones beat a prime hopkins a prime Toney, won a heavyweight championship and beat a lot of other tough rugged big men as well as some good lighter weight guys. I'm not saying RJJ had better oposition than SRL....but it is not as far as some of you make it out to be. Which brings up another interesting question- why do sports fans-boxing especially-always seem so stingy about awarding credit to people of a current era, particularly in relation to those from the past?

 

*****?what weight class was he?

 

So lemme see. Hagler who was undefeated for 10 years and was coming off huge wins over the likes of Hearns & Mugabi is supposudley shot in comparison to the likes of Ali vs Berbick? Yet at the same time, A green hopkins is supposudley prime and Toney who was weight drained is also prime. This has nothing to do with old vs new era, if this was I would say Mugabi rates higher than Hopkins. Its just a case of one having greater accomplishments and happens to be a fighter from 30 years ago. Were not naming a fighter from 100 years ago either.

 

No one. It is arguable that all those years before Leonard that he is still the best.

Leonard beat Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler. That's arguably the best 135, 140, 154 and 160 in history. He never beat arguably the best 147 because he could be it!

I don't think any P4Per has really achieved this. Opposition is paramount and I'm not sure I can say Robinson, Armstrong, Pep or any one else has really done that.

Just like Ali at heavy. I can't say any heavy beat a Liston, a Foreman AND a Frazier.

Now on top of all that both these guys got there fair share of achievements so it's like they lost twenty fights with no achievements but 3 or 4 good wins.

Achievements, accomplishments etc are secondary to opposition. The best beating the best and proving what they can do IN THE RING!

Guys like Robinson, Armstrong do bend this rule because on paper they did some stupid **** like Robinson being a major player until 40. That's longevity like Hopkins but after wars, hundreds of fights and some bad living.

 

Yes.

Wilfredo Benitez.

Stop being ridiculous. Excuses, controversy and all that bollocks can be brought up for anyone. I'll rip apart Ali, Louis and everyone elses record. Give it some respect like it deserves and it gets it's true worth.

He never got beat in the rematch by Hearns. It was a draw and that is not a controversial decision.

Duran was proven at 147 and up to 160. No shame there. Second time, Duran loss. Some call it controversial, others say excuses. Arcel knows nothing of it and one of Durans mouthpieces admitted he made it up to save face or risk Duran being killed (maybe literally) in Panama. Third time, he was old but so was LEonard, Duran was coming off of amazing Barkley win, Leonard came off of another fight where he looked bad.

Too many legendary wins for it to be a fluke.

Comeptition is paramount and I don't think any P4P fighter has faced arguably the best 135, 140, 154 and 160. Speaks for itself.

There is always controversy and excuses when the fighter LOSES. Every fight where something is wrong for Leonards opponent think about what was wrong for Leonard and then you'll see your shining bias.

How does the rest of his resume have nothing? It has the typical titlists and contenders like Kalule, Lalonde etc

You are talking out of your arse. What I've said about his competition is irrefutable. His competition is unbelievable and legendary to the highest degree.

 

Too many excuses and too much bull****.

Leonard has elite wins that are unrivalled. He also has wins over titlists, contenders and typical cannon fodder. We are talking about a man who use Kalule and a new division as a warm up for THOMAS HEARNS! Not only does he have that he does have longevity going to 35 and he does have accomplishments with 5 division titles.

You don't respect the worth of his wins. No point debating anymore.

 

Leonard had 3 stoppages against the big 4

Also beating Hagler after only 9 rounds in 5 years is quite impressive

 

This isn't true. Now you are just talking out of your arse. I have said arguable all along. I even said arguable for the rankings of Duran, Benitez etc I even said Robinson, Armstrong etc are an exception to the rule (opposition being paramount). So stop chatting ****.

Leonards record is irrefutable. Don't give me that jive about controversy, that's excuses and bull**** that can be used to rip anyones careers to shred - it doesn't matter if they are called Muhammad Ali or Joe Louis. Fighters are human, they aren't invincible and things don't go flawlessly.

Accept this and appreciate Ray Leonard.

 

Top 10 is adequate appreciation. I'm sure his wins warrant him to be arguably ranked above any top 10 guys you name.

No one can refute what I've said. Bring me the excuses and bull**** to tarnish Leonards wins and I'll throw it right back at you with just as much ****.

 

there have been too many to mark a solid yes to Leonard being the best in the last 30 years.. Hearns, Hagler, Pernell, Duran its a very debatable one.......

Curry was awesome until McCallum got to him....

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
this gave me my laugh of the day

 

i remember seeing that. we are talking about punked right?

 

Marvin Hagler