In the Ring: Marvin Hart .. Real facts on Johnson fight

No further comment on the remarks attributed to me about Floyd and PacMan, where you mixed me up with someone else, who also presumably irritates you?

 

You're entirely misguided in this assertion. But I could give a damn.

Is that Sasha Grey in your avatar? Answer me that!

 

Corbett's form coming in to the fights with Jeffries was non-existent. He was coming off a beating, a KO loss and a 6-year gap from his last win first time around.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

If those are the raw facts that are relevant points. I mean, yes, he qualified as a challenger by virtue of being a former champion AND he proved how good he was compared to Jeffries, or how good he was at boxing Jeff.
Second fight Corbett was even older and coming off another 3-year layoff.
It's not much different from Johnson-Jeffries. Or Dempsey-Tunney. Or Dempsey-Willard.
But Jeffries had the most trouble in that first fight than any of them.

Fitzsimmons' case isn't as bad but the 2-year layoff prior to the second fight does take a bit of shine off the record he built in between. I mean, these things shouldn't be dismissed. Layoffs that extend past 12 or 18 months especially should always be viewed as likely handicaps for fighter, esp. with these guys being old fighters as well.

 

Corbett was 36 when he fought Jeffries the second time, he contested one fight in the three years prior to this a widely presumed fake with Kid McCoy, apart from this debacle Corbett had not won a fight in nine, and a half years, when he faced Jeffries the second time.I think that points to seriously eroded skill and athleticism.
Fitz was thirty nine when he faced Jeffries the second time he had not fought in two years and had developed a drink dependancy.Its true Fitz had two good wins, prior to his second challenge of Jeff, Sharkey ,and Ruhlin ,but they were two years previously.After being kod by Jeffries,Fitz had one notable win a points dec over Gardner, his only other wins were over nobodies ,and he would be stopped by light hitting OBrien .
I don't contend that Fitz was a far gone as Corbett, but he was certainly not remotely in his prime,nearly forty he was not training with regularity nor keeping a boxers habits.I think his subsequent form after being kod by Jeffries bears out my contention that his skills had seriously eroded.

 

dirty, dirty girl...

 

Late 2011 or early 2012.

 

Seriously, though, it does sound like a very interesting read. I think this is a very good thread. Lots of good stuff being put forth.

 

I thought Ali had some good performances post 1970. Frazier III, Foreman, and Shavers come to mind. Also the Lyle ending.

 

I have to disagree here.

Denver Ed Martin had been hyped as the outstanding challenger for some time before Johnson beat him, and unlike Johnson a fair few people did give him a chance against Jeffries. McVea was also being built up as the outstanding challenger when Johnson beat him, and Sandy Ferguson had also been named as the outstanding challenger.

After Johnson had beaten Martin, McVea and Ferguson, I dont think that anybody would have contradicted you if you had said that he was the outstranding challenger.

Indeed it is hard to see who else they might have named for the honour.

 

Of course that cuts both ways.

Sources favourable to Johnson will also be quoted, and that might undermine some of your positions.

 

I guess all those experts, who rate Johnson highly are wrong.
Eddie Futch ,for example put him in the top 3 .Louis no 1 , with Ali and Johnson split.
But what would he know?