In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part I: The Making of a Champion

I don't disagree at all with what Tyson says. Dempsey was an animal.

Doesn't mean the Jess Will-Lard was well prepared for the fight.

 

How was he dangerous in the second and third? Because he threw a couple of punches and then quit on his stool? This is coming from the same guy who was trying to convince us that Jim Flynn was on his way to beating Jack Johnson... Willard lost all three rounds wide. He didnt lose rounds two and three as wide as round one because he was down so many times in round one but that doesnt mean he was "dangerous" in that round. We have the complete fight on film and if for some reason your eyes deceive you you can read the plethora of ringside accounts (there were five hundred members of the press present) almost to a man they said Willard was never in the fight and never dangerous. Like I said, ignore opinions and look strictly at the facts and its ludicrous to suggest Willard was anything but extremely ill prepared for a championship contest. If managing to throw a handful of punches in rounds 2 and 3 qualifies a fighter as dangerous we should probably agree your bar for threatening opposition is lower than mine.

 

Thanks very much for posting this. Real nostalgia on my part, as I saw it when it was first shown, I think about 1953 or so.

It is easy to understand the Dempsey legend after watching this. He was a warm and gregarious man who wore the mantle of the ex-champion with class and panache. He was exceptionally likable. When I was young, Dempsey was easily the most popular living ex-athlete, a role that later fell to DiMaggio, and now probably Michael Jordan.

What else stood out:

Carpentier and Firpo came all the way from France and Argentina, but while this show was in Hollywood and I believe Jess Willard lived in the LA area, Willard did not take part.

Jack Kearns was also conspicuous by his absence.

Fred Fulton claimed in the years immediately after their fight that his fight with Dempsey was arranged to go ten, but that Dempsey double-crossed him and hit him when he wasn't ready. Here he makes no mention of that. It was probably always a publicity gimmick to put Fulton in a position for a rematch. It was interesting to see Fulton.

Johnny Sudenberg was credited with knocking Dempsey down nine times, and it is clear when the two are together that he was a much smaller man.

*I am working my way through the book now which arrived today, and it seems so much of what has been written and said about Dempsey, including by Dempsey himself, is so much hogwash, including the story that he was knocked down 9 times by Sudenberg. I remember Dempsey being quoted as saying he had to get up nine times as he needed the money.

 

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It is interesting that just mentioning the truth--Willard was old, had laid off three years, certainly looks in this fight "loose" or "soft" about the torso, and overall was never that good of a fighter to begin with--causes one to be lumped in with "haters" by Dempsey supporters. Such defensiveness is revealing.

Off the film, by the way, I am not overly-impressed with Dempsey in the second or third rounds. Against an opponent who doesn't have much defense, Dempsey hits him pretty much at will, but can't put him down again.

Do these rounds prove Willard was in great shape? They prove he had courage and a fighting heart, and could take Dempsey's best shots at this point. I have my doubts Willard could have lasted the three rounds with a Joe Louis or quite a few other punchers over the decades.

 

Who said Willard was on his way to victory ? You're arguing with yourself. I said Willard didn't enter the ring in terrible condition. I think you're wrong on this point The odds going into the fight based on boots on the ground had Willard as the favorite. It wasn't Havana but many champs defended their titles in far worse shape. He didn't look it physically. He did get up and continue after a brutal first round. Accounts including those by Dempsey say he threw and landed some solid rights and uppercuts in the second and continued to press in the third. That shows conditioning. That's my point .. I also stand by saying Pollack has plenty of first hand accounts of Willard in training for this fight that are positive. I don't see how your's are accurate and his aren't .. you weren't there and you're going on your research which which I'm sure is good I doubt is better than his on this specific topic. Adam has proven to be nothing if not baised in all nine of his books. I also don't refer to Willard quitting like you do above as if he pulled a Buster Douglas vs Holyfield or Tyson vs McBride .. you contradict yourself .. if Dempsey gave him such a terrible beating by retiring he did not quit .. I've seen you time and again diminish the punishment Willard received to place Dempsey's win in context and thats a reasonable position to take but Willard did receive a terrible beating even if it was not of the bone breaking, Roger Kahn fetish, legendary kind and gave it all he physically could to the point it was life threatening. Not much more to say.

 

Good post...

 

Anyone know when this was from ?

This content is protected

 

Willard was inactive, did not in any manner compensate for his being 37 years old and was training 30 minutes a day. A hobby jogger who runs 50 minute 10K's trains longer. He had two inept sparring partners and refused more. And at least your local hobby jogger wasn't afraid of road work!

Seriously, a guy like Johnson, with an encyclopedia of skills in the bank, could go thru the motions in training and pull off a successful defense. But all Willard had was physical, something diminished with each passing year. He could not afford to be anything but in top shape and expect to win.

And no, Willard did not suffer grave injuries in the bout. He drove to Chicago a few days later, over rough roads on primitive suspension. Had he the sort of facial injuries oft attributed there is no way he could have endured such a mission. He was told to be unscathed, except for a cut on the lip, before he left on that trip.

 

No, Willard had huge advantages in size and weight as well. He was still a 250 pound man fighting a 187 pound man .. again, Willard was the favorite going into the fight and the odds were made by those watching them both spar .. that does not mean they were right but it does mean many saw something positive in him .. that aside, what is you're position here ? It reads to me like you're saying Dempsey didn't really damage a completely untrained Willard so your basically saying Dempsey's win was overrated over a subpar Willard . It's a bit of a counter exaggeration.

 

I have read through the two big controversies. Here is my take so far:

Flynn--Maxine goes to a newspaper after she charges Dempsey abandoned her, taking all their money and her jewelry and leaving for another city. She tells the paper Dempsey showed her $500 before the fight and told her it was given to him by Flynn to throw the fight.

A big point. Maxine did not claim Dempsey was not knocked out and flopped on the floor when he could have fought on. Her story is that he allowed himself to be hit and was really knocked out. I think this a critical nuance. She couldn't go to it being a simple dive as it was obvious to those watching that Dempsey had really been unconscious.

Adam presents evidence the gate was $5000. He writes that Dempsey "testified" that his purse for this fight was $1500. I might be jumping to a bad conclusion, but as Adam is a lawyer, I think the word testified implies this was in a court of law, probably the trial for draft evasion, and so was a statement made under penalty of perjury. Maxine said Dempsey netted $1100 after the $500 bribe, but this net would be consistent with the $1500 before paying off his manager.

A big weakness for me with Maxine's story. If Flynn paid Dempsey before the fight, why would Dempsey have to throw the fight? He had the money in hand. He was obviously a solid draw, able to earn purses well above $500 and on his way up. Why toss this away to be square with Flynn when you are being so dishonest? Even if Flynn offered the bribe, why not just take his money and then knock him out? What is Flynn going to do? Go to the police and complain that he paid Dempsey to take a dive but Dempsey gave an honest effort and beat him? One might be afraid to double-cross the mafia, but Flynn?

So, on balance, Adam's evidence so far strengthens for me the fight being on the level.

Willard--Adam put most of my questions about the Willard fight to rest. Dempsey's share of the purse was $27,000, plus $10,000 as his share of the film revenue. And more money came in from revenue from spectators at his sparring sessions. He was leaving on a $7000 a week theatrical tour. A bet of $10,000 or perhaps $16,000 was made, but mostly for Dempsey to merely win. Only $2000 against $20,000 was for a first round knockout. This impresses me as reasonable and not suspicious.

As for Willard's injuries, they might not have been that bad. I have seen nowhere that he was hospitalized. Adam mentions that he was said to be okay the next day with the swelling on the right side going down under cold compresses. Willard took a bad beating, but descriptions such as "life-threatening" seem over the top.

The only suspicious issue left is Dempsey leaving the ring so quickly. Seems odd. But not odd enough to draw big conclusions from it.

 

This post wasn't directed at me, but

"basically saying Dempsey's win was overrated over a subpar Willard"

Yes, I think so, compared to other wins over aged or long-laid off champions, such as Johnson over Jeffries or Marciano over Louis. Those are usually utterly dismissed. This one has often been trumpeted as cementing Dempsey's status, but Willard is in fact the oldest of the three losers, had not laid off as long as Jeffries, but had laid off as long as Dempsey in the first Tunney fight, and unlike Louis or Jeffries, did not otherwise have that impressive an overall record.

As for his condition, he doesn't look rock hard like Jeff and Louis did, but I can't say he wasn't in relatively good condition. Whether his training could overcome the effects of age and a long layoff is another issue. To me he looks clumsy and awkward even before the roof fell in.

 

Good post but he did defeat Willard in a more brutal, faster manner than the other two victors mentioned ... each win had a kinda different effect on the victor .. Dempsey became the savage animal. Johnson the surgical genius although many felt he still couldn't defeat a prime Jeffries ... Marciano over Louis to this day is used by many to support how Rocky could compete against big, quality en as Louis, even at 37, was the best "big" man Rocky ever fought ..

 

As far as willards injuries, there will be more on this in the second book as something did happen to willards cheekbone... He let jim Murray and other boxing writers feel his face.... Murray said his cheekbone moved around... So something happened to his nface, wether from boxing or not maybe we'll see in vpart two

 

Strange that Willard was ok post fight, since Dempsey obviously had a railroad tie nail in his glove.

 

American Heritage Magazine had excerpts from Dempsey (1977) written with the help of his step-daughter, Barbara Piattelli Dempsey. The article is entitled The Destruction of a Giant. How I Beat Jess Willard. Here are a few quotes:

The night before the fight Doc Kearns held a party. Tex Rickard was there. So surprisingly was Willard. This is what Dempsey has to say about the party:

"According to some of the boys present, Willard downed an entire pint of gin. Even Tex was surprised, after all, the fight was the next day. Rickard apparently asked him if the booze wasn't pretty potent medicine. Jess reportedly replied that it wouldn't do him any harm since meeting me in the ring would only be exercise."

Dempsey was not at the party. He went to bed early, but slept fitfully.

and commenting about the morning of the fight:

"Willard was the five to four favorite and was pretty c-cksure. He even had the nerve to approach Doc for legal immunity in case he killed me."

"Before I left the dressing room, Doc walked in and told me of the bet he had put on me with its ten to one odds."

About the 3rd round--"Willard was now an object of pity, completely at my mercy. He was spent and made no attempt to fight back."