In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part I: The Making of a Champion

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by apollack, Sep 16, 2020.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Lots of experts in real life are jerks. They just are, I'm not there to have a beer with them, I am there to learn something I want to know more of.

    If you want to be popular sports author, just pick the right subject material. 90 out of 100 sports fans who watch boxing have never heard of Harry Greb. One could have the writing ability of Geoffrey C Ward, and the photography Sports Illustrated finest, and the account of the primary Pittsburgh news man who covered Greb, if the topic is Greb, there is only so much you will sell.

    Now, if the topic is Dempsey with the same resources, that one will be remembered much better.
     
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    But, as pointed out above, the odds were bet down to even money on the day of the fight. Willard opened a favorite. If Willard opened a favorite and the odds were bet down to even money that means he lost support. As the saying goes, the late money is the smart money. Willard becoming even money in the odds means more money was being wagered more heavily on Dempsey. Furthermore, go and look throughout history how often the champion is not the favorite. Its very rare. It was even more rare back then when just having the championship in an, era before television and radio, denoted a special class and consideration that wouldnt be afforded today. The VAST majority of people interested in this fight would have never seen Dempsey. Never seen Willard. There was no ESPN to show highlights so we could compare their speed, skill, power, etc. They knew Dempsey was just over 6 feet tall and 185 pounds and burst on the scene last year. They knew Willard was the champion. Had knocked out a long standing champion. Stood 6'6" and weighed 250 pounds. Prior to Dempsey-Willard, even with Willard's layoff, there were far more stories in the newspapers about him being a massive mountain of a man with inhuman strength and stamina. Given all of that its not hard to see why he opened a favorite. Given what we know now and what the fight proved, its not hard to see why despite people on the scene betting the odds down to even money he retained a place at even money. Because, yes, giving everyone a flavor of the times by trying to give every viewpoint from every paper 100 years later in a book is great BUT those fans who werent present at Toledo to witness the events in person, they didnt have access to all 500 written first person accounts. So a significant portion of those bets were likely placed with their heart, not their head and betting against a huge proven champion over a much smaller relatively less well known fighter is still the smart bet under those circumstances. As Ive said before and will stand by. Separating the facts from the opinions, there is no conclusion other than that Willard was ill prepared for that fight. Nobody is rewriting history by saying that. Dempsey had to beat whatever version of Willard came into the ring to get the title and he did that. But anyone who tries to argue that a 37 year old man who entered a barely six week training course with almost no prep work after a three year layoff and only 2 fights in five years who disdained roadwork, took days off, cut workouts short, hired some of the absolute worst sparring partners you could hire to polish the tools and entered the ring with a split lip and cut eye is nuts. Period. I never once said YOU made that argument and if anyone can show me where I did then do so. What I said was that if you or anyone else did make that argument it doesnt hold up. Id love to see a poll of knowledgeable boxing fans who think a fighter entering the ring with preparation outlined above would be ready to fight much less defend a world championship. Anyone?
     
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  3. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Burt was in his late 80s when you bullied him. So his memory likely wasn't as sharp, as it used to be.

    Yes, Burt went on and on about a fight that never happened (Robinson-Dykes)... but he probably honestly thought it did. At his age, we should cut him some slack, and forgive him for what could be memory lapses.

    But that's exactly the problem with you... there's no forgiveness, no sympathy, no slack-cutting for those who are lacking in knowledge compared to you (which means everybody!). Instead you belittle and ridicule them at every opportunity, if they don't see eye to eye with you.

    As for your claim that Burt wasn't really a senior citizen, but a young chap who had been trolling us for years... that has got to be THE most inane drivel (to use your own words), that I have read on this forum!
     
  4. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The Burt Truther Movement was a highlight in the history of this board.
     
  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Well we agreed on the jerk part ;)

    Funny, I was actually talking about you the other day in a comparison .. I mentioned how many years ago when the Langford Jeanette film was uncovered but no one knew how to locate it online you were kind enough to show me how and I had a buddy time correct it and that is the copy that ended up all over the web ... obviously the film was a huge deal as almost no one at the time saw it .. I even watched it with Teddy Atlas and it was his first time ever seeing it .. I always thought that was a very classy thing for you to do.
     
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  7. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It' so easy to get in your head Klompton. Same old story. You're simply not that bright.
     
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  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I read it Klompton's Dempsey book ... not .. :lupie:
     
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  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Side stepping coward .. once a weasel, always ...
     
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  10. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Aww thats sweet, but you didnt need to tell me that story for me to know you think about me a lot. Dont worry, the feeling is mutual, I think about you every time I set my drink down:

    [url]https://flic.kr/p/2k7yFwA[/url]

    :lol:
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I've never see anyone alive today suggest that Willard was ready, in shape or even remotely close to his prime for this match. The focus has always been on the beating he took. The author can allow for foolish quotes to build Willard up, but in the end his job is to say I doubt them. By letting them stand without saying anyhting its serves the fanboys.

    What's your take on Dempsey running out of the ring after round one ends? Something was up here, perhaps foul play. If Dempsey thought the fight was over, he should be celebrating in the ring with his arms raised. Instead he running out of it. I agree they inspected his wraps before, but something certainly could have been given to him outside the dressing room before the first bell rang. The first round KO bet amplifies the suspicion. Dempsey's manager, Jack Kearns bet $10,000 at 10 to 1 odds that Dempsey would win by a first-round knockout. Why would he make such a bet as Willard has bene proven durable before? $10,000 back then was a huge sum of money.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Who says he was running ?
    Probably he was celebrating with friends or fans outside the ring.
     
  13. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I honestly dont see anything suspicious about Dempsey leaving the ring immediately. In the no decision era this was common because there was no need to wait around for a decision. If you watch the complete film of the Willard-Moran fight Willard leaves the ring so fast after the final bell youd think he had a train to catch. The bell rings and he literally turns around in place crawls through the ropes without missing a beat.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I am halfway through the book (up to the Fulton fight in 1918) when it dawned on me there wasn’t yet a mention of the 1918 Spanish flu.

    Does anyone know if the flu disrupted sporting events?
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, it just made people sick and killed people.
     
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