In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part I: The Making of a Champion

I'm all in on this one, Adam. Are you sending an autographed hard copy to Klomton?

You have stated a very high opinion of Jeffries...how do you think a prime vs prime fight between Jeffries and Dempsey turns out?

 

How many 1st round KO’s did Dempsey have,20 odd all with a spike!

 

The story of Dempseys loaded gloves started with Jimmy DeForrest himself, Dempsey’s trainer for the fight. DeForrest stated the following year that he had wrapped Dempseys hands with bicycle tape, which hardened over time. He said it was the same way he wrapped Fitzsimmons’ hands. This is entirely possible but it was also very common at the time and not strictly frowned upon unless expressly stated in the fight contract. In my book theres a picture of Greb and Joe Borrell in the ring prior to one of their fights and you can clearly see the electrical tape Borrell was known to use wrapping his hands. Greb didnt make a peep despite the fact that in their first fight Borrell had broken Grebs nose and generally beat the hell out of him. So it makes sense that even if Dempseys hands were wound with a hard tape nobody would have said anything. Willards corner man present in Dempsey’s corner when he was gloved up and Willard himself shook hands with Dempsey prior to both being gloved but after their hands were wrapped so Willard doesnt really have a legitimate gripe. Joe Chip, who sparred with Willard for the fight and who was in the corner during the fight stated within a couple of days that Willards injuries were greatly exaggerated.

 

WRONG. I am sort of a Dempsey fan and have said many positive things about him before. Don't be so defensive, we know you like the wife-beating, dirty in and out of the ring freemason types at Heavyweight who avoided their best competition. I report what I see and read, I do not make them up. This causes you to get defensive instantly.

 

You get it. Examine what we know and think based on how people react, backed up by what others say.

Don't get stuck on the plaster of Paris, there are many illegal things that can be wrapped on the hand or concealed inside a glove that can do similar damage.

Its like a criminal saying I didn't use THAT gun, when you know something else was likely used.

Demspey ran out of the ring, like he was guilty or could be of something. I never saw a fighter winning the championship do that since. Something is up.

 

Didn't multiple people testify at his draft evading trial that he was a pimp?

 

It is one thing to knock over Peter Popovers quickly, but a champion who is huge and has never been off his feet? It seems a very strange bet to make.

Dempsey did not end any of his championship fights in the first round. Better competition.

 

I agree that the nature of the bet plus Dempsey leaving the ring so quickly raise very legitimate suspicions about what was going on.

 

I do not pledge to a camp nor would I take refuge in any camp that would have me.

 

Wonder if Kearns had money on a 1st round KO vs Fulton?

Eubanks bet on himself to KO Nigel Benn in round one of their 1st encounter,Jim Corbetts manager bet on him to beat big betting fav John L,Tommy Burns was fav with the bookies vs Johnson,Did Johnson see the odds and bet on himself?Must be loads of examples of fighters/managers betting on 1st round KO

 

I believe you will find it was Kid McCoy's hands Deforrest said he wrapped with bicycle tape.
Not sure he wapped Fitz's hands. Bicycle tape hardens and is very effective but it can do damage to the wearer too and Fitz had very bad hands by the time he fought Jeffries in1902
He asked permission to wear extra layers of gauze when he fought Ruhlin and smashed his knuckles and thumb on Jeffries face.

"He was a perfect judge of distance and a master of timing. Any fighter who would mix it with Fitz did so at his own peril. The closer one got to Fitz, the harder he was hit. He won at least twenty fights at such close range that the impact of the wallop was heard before the spectator saw the blow start.
When Bob was in jeopardy he covered up instinctively and remained so until his head cleared, emerging from a dazed condition to acute consciousness. He was swift to take advantage of the slightest opening and could hit from any position with either hand. He fought over three hundred and sixty fights, and when he died there was not a single professional scar upon his head and shoulders, such was the magnificence of his defense.
All the knuckles of his right hand, including the thumb, were smashed, and they, curiously enough, in his second fight with Jeffries at San Francisco in 1902. He had cut the California boy to ribbons, but he could not administer the knockout. He broke his four finger knuckles on Jeffries' jaw, one at a time, and the thumb for a finish.
"I felt them bust in my glove like pieces of chalk," he told me afterward. "No use. I then let go with my thumb at his temple. When it 'it 'im, the thumb went too. It busted like a chocolate cream. I never struck another blow. I was through."


I have worn electrical tape over wraps once, it bruised my middle knuckles,your fist does not spread on impact ,and your wrists also take some punishment.
GunBoat Smith said he wore electric tape when he fought Willard. In my admittedly limited experience of it it is easily detected if your hand is examined whilst you are wearing it.
Jeffries carefully examined Fitz's wraps before they gloved up ,and Walter Monaghan was present when Dempsey's hands were wrapped and Willard himself looked at Dempsey's hands in the ring,so I see now way it could have been applied without the opposite corner knowing about it.Perhaps Adam will enlighten us further?

Fleischer, who was in Dempsey's dressing room said Deforrest used nothing more than regular gauze dressing tape. Bicycle tape as you rightly stated was not prohibited.

 

Groucho Marks.

 

Max kellerman is a moron

 

Nope,and he was exonerated at his trial.

 

The thing is you don't "KNOW" you just want it to be true.