In your view, how does a positive steroid test affect a fighters legacy?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by StillWill, Apr 25, 2012.


  1. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

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    That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...
     
  2. StillWill

    StillWill Dr. Eisenfaust Full Member

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    So cheating doesnt matter to you?
     
  3. nick6

    nick6 Active Member Full Member

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    The majority if not all of them are on something. And its been in the sport for the last 20-30 years at the very minimum.

    Why do you think they only fight twice a year ? Bet they cycle between fights. I read before in another thread in 2002 testing become mandatory in boxing ? Its a bit of a coincidence that people like dela hoya, hopkins, morales, barrera, mosley, pacquiao suddenly went from fighting 4 times a year to only twice at about the same time.

    Its obvious look at there unnatural bodies and quick weight gains eg jones jr and haye gaining something like 20lbs of pure muscle in 8 months or something, that **** isn't happening on a bulking routine with a perfect diet let alone a boxers training with all the running and cardio stuff they do aswell.

    People juice in amateur sports all the time why wouldn't a professional who gets paid millions depending on the outcome do it ?
     
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  4. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cheating with steroids puts a huge damper on a fighter's legacy. It means he's a cheater, and calls into question the validity of his victories, as well as how well he would do in H2H fantasy matchups without the assistance of drugs. We can't know if he would have won the fights he did if he had to do it without illegal substances. We do know the fighter did not have enough confidence and integrity to win without them. If both fighters aren't juicing, and one breaks the law and rules and the other does not, then there isn't a fair and level playing field. History could have been fundamentally altered without the drugs. Would Mosley have beaten De la Hoya? Would Holyfield have beaten Tyson? Would Jones, Jr. have beaten Ruiz? We'll never know.
     
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  5. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i think it's case by case. with jones junior, it was ripped fuel which was an over the counter supplement. not quite as insidious as some make it sound

    if we are drawing a line, do we null and void the records of fighters who sipped brandy between rounds to null the pain?
     
  6. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    My understanding is Jones, Jr. tested positive against Richard Hall, but they both did, so they let it go.
     
  7. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've been deeply cynical about the subject for a long time.
    I get very suspicious when a boxer adds several pounds of muscle in just a few months...the average guy in the gym if he works hard, will add about 5-8 lbs. of muscle per year to his frame. That's doing very, very well.

    I personally think the vast majority are doing something, and to me it's the height of naivety or willful ignorance to believe otherwise.

    If a guy is caught, chances are he has been doing it for years. Drug tests are meaningless in most instances as well, since athletes will know how to crook them. Those that get caught were careless.

    But it's just my opinion...it seems to be a testy subject for many posters.
     
  8. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'll say one other thing...roids don't make a champion. The cream will rise to the top regardless of whatever they all are doing.

    As for their legacies etc...yeah, of course everything they have accomplished must be looked at in a different light, but on the other hand I believe the problem to be so widespread that it would be easier to find the guys that aren't on something.

    I don't regard something as cheating if most of the athletes are doing it. (And in my opinion they are.)
     
  9. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    how can you say most athletes are doing it? what is 'it', if it is steroids then obviously most athletes dont because why would a fw boxer or a marathon runner take steroids?

    I find it hard to believe muscle building steroids would not be detrimental to performance of lower weight fighters. the increased testosterone is a bigger issue but even basic tests should find this.

    obviously there are many other substances that can be used to cheat but this thread is about steroids
     
  10. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingfisher3
    when you say 'on something' do you know what something is? otherwise a dumb statement.
    you only have to have a conversation about holyfield, rjj, dwain chambers, maradona or barry bonds to see how much of an effect it has on legacy.

    'That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...'

    if the 1st sentence don't make sense i meant that you cant accuse an entire vocation of something you don't even know the name or effects of.

    if the second sentence go ask sports fans about proven cheaters and it almost always is one of the first subjects in the conversation
     
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  11. Boro chris

    Boro chris Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Personally for me I find it completely invalidates their whole career if they fail a test at any point. Toney,Vitaly and RJJ are fighters I can't take seriously (though I'm aware that the Jones case is less clear cut than some others). incredible how some fans don't think it's that big of a deal. Just baffling.
    A two year ban should be the least punishment they receive although I'd prefer a lifetime ban.
    Margarito should also have been banned for life.
     
  12. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's tricky, these days it's very easy to get away with drugs in boxing, easier than any other sport. Their are blatant examples of steroid takers never being caught out. It would be naive to think that it's not wide spread. You could ask 'has it become part of the sport'? Drugs also have drawbacks, look at Shannon Briggs for example, far too much muscle mass to be an effective boxer
     
  13. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Truthfully, I don't know what 'it' is. It's most likely a combination of different enhancers.

    I'm definitely no steroid buff; I have known several guys who have taken steroids, either for sport of just to get bigger, and have been to enough gyms and around gyms to know the mentality of a lot of the people that lift weights. (I myself have been lifting on and off since '87.)

    I've been offered steroids more times than I can remember, and always without me even prompting the question. (Like any druggie, roiders tend to hang out together.)
    I tried the stuff once myself, and I felt like a lowlife the whole time, to be honest. Gave it up after a few months. So I do have some experience with roids.

    Unless you've tried it yourself, you'll never know just how beneficial the gear can be. It makes you a superman. It doesn't just make you stronger, but you'll have boundless energy as well. You really just can't imagine the difference until you've tried it.

    With so many boxers lifting weights these days, being around typical gym people, having personalised conditioning coaches and whatnot, I am of no doubt that they will encounter the type of guys that will sooner or later try and introduce the fighters to this particular sub culture.
    I would say that it is pretty much inevitable at some point.

    Let's just take a hypothetical example, where a boxer has just lost a fight, has seen maybe lucrative purses down the road disappear as a result, and is looking to get better in the gym.
    Along comes a guy, maybe his trainer, an aquiantance or someone he trusts, and offers him this little pill or needle that can make a difference right away.
    How many fighters are really going to take the moral high ground and refuse to at least entertain the idea?
    It doesn't make that fighter a bad person, but he's just a human being.

    Fighters fight for money, and when your very livelihood is threatened because you're not winning and not making good money, or maybe that fighter just needs an edge over the competition, I don't think most fighters are above taking something that will help them perform better, in varying degrees.

    I have no proof of anything (Although several fighters have been caught over the years) but I'm just applying basic common sense with a bit of knowledge of the steroid sub culture.

    As for the tests...again, no expert at all when it comes to these tests, but drug tests can generally be bypassed pretty easily by a guy 'in the know.'

    My personal opinion is that these drug tests are just a token; a means to placate the public and make it look like they're keeping a watch on drugs in sport.
    It's not that governing bodies are encouraging it, not at all, but they are utterly at a loss as to how to really deal with it.

    Bodies like the IOC know exactly what's happening, but they can't very well bust 80% or more of their athletes now, can they? :lol: It would be a disaster.

    In my opinion, the cat is out of the bag, and there is nothing the governing bodies can really do about it.
     
    Pat M likes this.
  14. JudgeDredd

    JudgeDredd Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It was rumoured Tyson was taking check drops for the re-match.
     
  15. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i am not sure that it is easier or more prevalent in boxing than other sports. I believe tennis is probably the worst sport for cheats. look at djokovic's eyes and tell me there aint a fair chance of blood doping. the atp does not test for this though. or nadal suddenly serving 5mph faster at last years US open.

    I have never really understood the accusations levelled at floyd and pac, some circumstantial evidence but nothing i see beyond performance and fight schedules.
     


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