Ingemar Johannson gives Cleveland Big Cat Williams A Title Shot In 1959.

There's moving the goalposts and changing the venue...

 

Williams performance against Liston is second most overrated one in division history (after Firpo vs Dempsey). He was stopped quickly and despite all these praises these fights weren't dangerous for Sonny. He was never close to being stopped. Sure, broken nose happens sometimes in this sport, but that's not enough to win the fight.

Liston made a quick work of Williams twice, it's not a reason to be famous.

 

Meant Folley. Will now edit the post and correct my error.

 

Elaborate if you'd be so kind.

 

You redeemed yourself!

 

These fights weren't dangerous for Sonny? Liston, by his own admission was almost knocked out in the first round, had his nose broken, and was forced to give ground something very uncommon to him. Don't be ridiculous.

 

I've seen both fights and Liston certainly wasn't "almost knocked out" in the first round. It's cool that Williams was brave and had early success, but he failed miserably in the end. I don't understand why people give a lot of credit for performances like that.

 

"I went out to feel him out in the first round and he almost knocked me out. I thought he had cut my throat". Why don't you go tell Sonny what he got wrong?

 

I don’t think Williams deserved a shot in 1959.

By then, Williams still has not got a win over a good fighter. He’s beating substitutes between losing to Liston. That’s it.

 

I can't tell that because Sonny is not alive.

The fight is available for all of us. Show me when Liston was close to be knocked out:

This content is protected

Williams surprised Sonny with agressive beginning, but Liston adjusted and Cleveland started to eat jabs in last minute of the first round. At the beginning of second round he tried to do the same, but Liston already knew what to do and he dominated second round. We all know what happened in the third round.

Unless we watch different fights, I don't see any point when Liston was in real danger. If he really was, then he acted perfectly. Eating some hard shots is not the same as being close to the KO.

 

Hey swag, I just thought of a really good argument for Williams today: "How long did it take Liston to knock out a peak Floyd Patterson twice? 4 mins. 16 secs.. Floyd is considered one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Liston BEAT UP Patterson. How long did it take Liston to knock out prime Williams twice? 13 mins. 26 secs. and he almost got stopped himself in both fights. Plus he only stopped Williams, he did not KO him. Williams and Patterson were both peak when he knocked them out, and Liston was peak when he knocked both of them out. Liston said a lot of nice things about Williams, but there's nothing he said that can't be validated in the films. Williams broke Liston's nose in round one of fight one. He had Liston hurt and covering up in round two of two. " The argument is not meant to be a rap on Floyd, but it is a comparison that does nothing for the mediocre-ness of Cleveland Williams.

 

Liston didn't come close to being knocked out in round one in the way you are thinking. However, a stoppage loss was looming since Williams had broken Liston's nose. Liston was almost knocked out in the second fight:

skip to 5: 30

This content is protected

If Williams had followed up better he would have hurt Liston worse. I agree, Liston was not REALLY bad off, but this is Liston, with a steel jaw, and this was HURT for Sonny Liston.

 

He was alright less than 15 seconds after the punch you're talking about. Sorry but I don't view it as being "almost knocked out".

 

That's because Liston was tough as nails. I conceded in my last message that Liston was not seriously visibly hurt. He was not as badly hurt as I remembered. But for Liston, to show any sign of appearing stunned for even just a few seconds is significant. The great Floyd Patterson never got Liston to even take a backwards step.