Ingemar Johansson, 1958 vs Frank Bruno, 1986, who wins and why?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fans will always ridicule James Bonecrusher Smith for his Bone Hugging effort against Mike Tyson in March 1987. It should have been Terrible Tim Witherspoon against Mike Tyson.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Oh you mean four months AFTER Ingo had permanently retired from boxing?

    johansson had been targeting a fight with Liston but wisely decided to retire because he was worryingly decked in the final moments of a winning bout against Brian London. He was already financially secure.

    Ingo later promoted Sonny’s fights in Sweden when Liston couldn’t get fights in America.
     
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  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Do you think that Sonny Liston could take the Ingo Bingo?
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johansson was retired by August 1963. As far as I recall he wisely retired after a very tough fight with Brian London in April who he should have had an easier time with.

    Johansson was champion for a few days shy of one year, was tied to a Patterson rematch, a match that was agreed upon by the end of 1959 to take place in June 1960 outdoors in New York again. It was the match everyone wanted to see, Patterson was rated higher than Liston. So whether Liston called him out or not, it means nothing.

    Neither of your examples justify your comments about Johansson "refused to fight" or "ran away like a little ***** from the best fighter of his era". Those comments seem a bit biased and unfair to be honest.
     
  5. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    Bbutbutbut Eddie Machen! What about him? Stopped in round 1?.....

    Frank Bruno knocked THIRTEEN men the **** out in round 1. Who else proves the Ingo power on his resume again?
    Who is going to stop who here!? The man who went 5 and 6 with Patterson, or the man who went 10 and 11 with Smith/Witherspoon? Excuse me, did I forget Lewis and Tyson? I guess Ringo Ingo does a 4-2 against Lewis too before tasting the canvas, never mind 5 rounds with the the more agressive Mike Tyson?

    You really wonder what nonsense going circles here sometimes. Waiting for Ingo beeing more of a white hope powerpuncher than the 30 pound heavier Cooney at the time he rampaged Young, Norton and Lyle in a row. Simply because he was also 80s --> sucked, right?


    Its astonishing, isn´t it?
    For some a fighter who can go into a survival shell is a better fighter than someone who at least goes toe to toe. When he wasn´t in shell-mode, who did Machen beat? Is his best win Brian London, newbie Jones or career-end Joe Maxim? Terell is arguably a better win than any man Machen ever beat.

    @swagdelfadeel Do you know what? I know nobody likes to go into shameless chok-mode, but what about hitting the drum this time (and I believe the case I´m going to bring up got like 450 % more meat than chok posts)?

    The Machen KO1 by Johansson was a fluke. Machen went 10 rounds with Liston, 10 with Frazier, 12 with Patterson and 10 with unbeaten Quarry. Johansson never ever again or before stopped someone inside the first round --> The Machen stoppage was a fluke.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I doubt he was ever even top 5. He was rarely even top 10.
    Well, you could give him a top 5 rating between beating McCall in September 1995 and losing to Tyson for the second time 6 months later.
    But the vast majority of his career at best he was "borderline top 10" or "lower top 10" or well outside of it.
     
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  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's fully explained in the article. There's such a thing as overweight yet in good condition.
     
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  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Coetzee's hand was absolutely fine against Page. He landed a number of right hand bombs and never stopped throwing it. He did not struggle to use it one bit and never had trouble with it.

    Tillis won about a round on two cards. Two fights later he gave a fast emerging Tyson an extremely good fight and actually won more rounds in that one. Beating Tillis comfortably was a good win.

    I would accept Gerrie came looked to be in pretty average shape. I'd like to see what the odds were going into the fight.
     
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  9. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Also I read that like Louis & Schmelling did, Ingo & Petterson visited easch other yearly across the pond!
     
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  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    What's so impressive with being stopped by Smith? I don't get it...
     
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  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So KO1 Machen is a "fluke"because Machen went 12 with Liston, 10 with Frazier and 10 with Quarry ?
    Okay, and then Bruno KO1 Coetzee (who was in decline anyway) is also a fluke ?

    You like to pull stats out but you fail to make much of a point.
    Johansson's powerful right hand is not up for debate. It's apparent on film, and was apparent throughout his career. The man could hit. His stoppage of Machen was no fluke, his stoppage of Patterson was no fluke.
    The man had a lot of power in the right hand. To try to argue otherwise is actually moronic.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johansson was a legit champion of the world, who KO's the undefeated #1 contender and the 35-1 world champion who had never been KO'd before.
    Do you really believe Coooney rampaging "Young, Norton and Lyle" at the time he met them puts him above Johansson ??
    Seriously, do you believe it ?
     
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  13. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    How many quick stoppages does Johansson have compared to Bruno again???

    Do you like to take n = 1 over n = 3, particularly when the guy who got stopped never ever again looked that way against much better proven punchers?
    Do you srsly believe Johansson was in the power league of 230lb Frank Bruno?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It doesn't matter.
    How quickly they deal with fat bums and set-ups and tomato cans is irrelevant.

    Gerrie Coetzee went 13 rounds with Weaver, 15 rounds with Tate, was KO'd in the "fourth minute" of the 8th round against Page, beat Snipes over 10 ..... so, was Bruno's KO of Coetzee a fluke or not ??
    That was my question.

    You have a silly habit of not answering the questions.

    You brought up Gerry Cooney. You brought up Cooney's wins over "Young, Norton and Lyle".
    My question is whether you seriously think those 3 wins prove more than Johansson's wins over Machen and Patterson ?
     
  15. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    We´re going until KO3 level because of Floyd Flatterchin? You wanna know if Brunos KO was a fluke?

    For your KO3 criteria: Frank Bruno KOd as many fighters (in 3 or less) as Ingo had fights inside his whole resume! You´re asking me if Coetzee KO1 was a fluke? The man stopped every fighter whenever he won, minus McCall and another lucky guy. Of course that KO1 wasn´t a fluke, because it fits the whole picture about Frank Brunos power.



    I was talking about a white hope as a power puncher prospect. Cooney KO% (KOs/wins) fits that criteria, as he also came from many quick stoppages too. And Floyds chin wasn´t exactly known as beeing sturdy.

    What about you answering my question?
    Who else did Johansson ever stop like he did Machen?
    Do you think he was in the power league of a 230lb 40 - 5 (38 KOs) man?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021