Ingemar Johansson, 1958 vs Frank Bruno, 1986, who wins and why?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    1) Because this thread brings up 59 again and again and again like Liston couldn´t pull off anything in 58.
    2) Because if he ever got near Patterson in like August 58 (Patterson vs Harris) he´s the champ.
    3) & 4) You could either take Berbick, Tucker or Thomas, or some poor fodder for young George too, it doesn´t matter. A Liston calibre fighter, even a younger one, is in the position to be favored against a fellow who´s one of the quickest victims of Floyd Patterson twice. Jackson (two times), Rademacher, Harris, Lodon all went longer with him.

    Because of the reasons mentioned earlier, and I think swag is correct on what he wrote, I won´t bait into another "discussion" with you.
     
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  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is the Sonny Liston you're talking about :



    Whitehurst was 190 pounds, had been stopped by small fighters before, didn't have a great reach, was no more than 6' tall.
    He was an ordinary journeyman type, didn't move particularly fast, he managed to last the 10 rounds with Liston AND he landed his right hand several times.
    I think it's not far-fetched to suggest the PEAK Johansson, who was bigger and better and had a better right hand, could do a lot better than Whitehurst.
     
  3. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    Like that jab! Sonny looks pretty relaxed.
    And 6 of the seven names got stopped pretty quick in 58. Theres always someone who wouldn´t go (Paralta, Tillis etc....)
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I bet you do. I guess it was the bit about Ingo running scared of Liston? Hard to say, There’s been a lot of nonsense on this thread that doesn’t stack up. LeDoux being a worthy opponent in his last fight and such like...proper twilight zone.

    So little knowledge displayed regarding where fighters were in their career at the time of a fight.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Still, Johansson would be a step up.
    Machen went in 1 round, Patterson went in 3. These are the kinds of stats you like. This is the version of Johansson you must consider.

    Like I said, Whitehurst was the 6', 190 pound size fighter type who you constantly dismiss as meaningless soft-touches who don't belong in heavyweight division, he went 10 rounds. His calibre in his own era was a couple of levels below Johansson, who was bigger and hit harder. These are the factors and stats you love to throw around. Liston fought him twice and couldn't stop him inside the 10 rounds.

    I think the point is, we don't know how well or not Johansson would do against Liston. Certainly at the time, Johansson would have been given a good chance and might well have been favourite. Certainly at the time, Johansson was a far more formidable and worthy opponent than Whitehurst for anyone.
     
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  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Whitehurst lost 19 out of 20 rounds and had to be revived at the end of the 2nd fight after getting sent through the ropes. Using this as a blueprint for Ingo (who fought NOTHING like Whitehurst by the way) is a stretch.
     
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  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's not a blueprint. I was just pointing out that "Liston at the end of 1958" could be extended 10 rounds and get hit by someone "small" and decidedly average. It's nonsense to pretend to know how Johansson would do against Liston at that time, but suffice to say he'd be regarded as a much better opponent than Whitehurst AND if he landed on Liston he's make far more of an impact than Whitehurst.

    Let's be clear here, Johansson would have been a great addition to Liston's win resume. Maybe he gets smashed in 1 round like Patterson did, or maybe he gives Liston his toughest fight, who knows ? Johansson is definitely the #3 guy of the 1958-'62 era though, behind Liston and Patterson.
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think it's funny that people want to say "Johansson was 1-2 against Patterson" as if that's some sort of knock on him.
    That's a prime Patterson, who was actually an excellent fighter. The decider match was a see-saw battle too.

    Look at the number of good fighters who didn't get a KO win over Patterson.
    Look at the names of the fighters who DID stop Patterson.
     
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Problem is there are some here who think Cleveland Williams sits above even Patterson in the top three of the 58-62’ era...
     
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  10. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    lol Thanks for confirming everything I said about you regarding your obsession with Williams. Cleveland Williams was in NO WAY relevant to Unforgiven's point yet you STILL find a way to bring him up.