Ingemar Johansson, 1958 vs Frank Bruno, 1986, who wins and why?

lol

 

No need to read the rest chok
Especially when its

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for Machen to run into his (2) next loss to "world class fighter" Zora Folley, another

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until (3) Liston, and another

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to run into his (4th) loss against "world class killer" Herold Johnson.

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?

But sure hell chok!
Eddie Machen of course woulda

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right one after another!!! Or did he average 5.5 wins for one defeat (50 wins 11 losses)? Who knows, who knows....

You saw another series of

"Chok & the numbers".

 

I don’t think you understand how this works in boxing.

The point isn’t who they lost to afterwards. It’s about who they had just beat and how they were regarded when they were beaten.

when Ingo beat them they were live or elite.

Never mind elite, who was even “live” when Frank fought them? That’s the point.

 

Sure chok, when the facts simply show that Machen rarely went 5 wins straight without a defeat, prime or whatever, thats not how boxing works

But when Johansson meets the young Sunday Version of Eddie Machen and catches him right onto the left ear (at least it looks that way), who never tasted a defeat on the ground afterwards in 54 rounds with Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Cleveland Williams, Jerry Quarry and Floyd Patterson, the Johansson miracle becomes pure legit Maybe it wasn´t the best version of Machen? What about that?
However it went, if Machen met all those guys in a devision 30lb heavier than he fought, he´d in a hell of trouble in some of this bouts and lose via points.

 

I guess it all boils down to weather or not you think ingo could beat Bruno with less ease than his actual conquerors did, and if not, could ingo take the punishment those men took to achieve the feat of beating him. The only instance in which Frank Bruno was taken out with any real ease was in his 1996 rematch with Mike Tyson, at which point both men were past their best.

 

I agree if you are speaking P4P.

 

I was listening to a recent interview with David Price. During his full time international Amatuer career as a Superheavyweight he complained of suddenly dropping a stone in weight (14lb) mid tournament. It was a worry for him because at 6’9” he feared “being gangly” and expressed the importance of maintaining as high a weight as he could during training to prevent this and he said perhaps it was not being able to “get the right diet” in that particular country. I asked myself if it is possible for a full time international fighter in the lower weight classes to suddenly drop 14lb mid tournament, say a middleweight for instance, unless they also carried artificial weight.

 

Tbh, I think even that version of Tyson makes short work of Ingo.

 

We all agree Tyson makes as short work of Ingo as he did Bruno. What we want to know is, among the former elite fighters that were dug up & imported to Bruno’s home town, did Frank even beat any fighters who came to win?

His win list is like the record of Danish heavyweight Brian Nielsen.

 

I find it somewhat odd that Bruno's much more accomplished fantasy opponents, get treated as the underdog who has to make their case in these threads.

The question that people should be asking, is whether Bruno can go against the pattern of a lifetime.

That is certainly the question that was being asked while he was active.

 

Why match ten against four ?
And why those ten against those four ?

I'm not quite sure why Patterson isn't on Johansson's list either.

 

The "H2H ability" of Johansson is not difficult to assess, since he BEAT EVERYONE HE FACED (the only losses are to a guy he beat the first time around, who is arguably top 20 or 30 all-time). You just have to rate those fighters and how good they were at the time he beat them.

And, yes, sure we can generously but reasonably put Frank Bruno at about the same level as James Smith, despite getting KO'd by him, because, as you say, he was winning until the final couple of minutes ... and Smith was erratic anyway.

Regarding Bruno v Johansson, ask yourself :
1. Did Johansson ever KO anyone of Bruno's level ?
2. Did Bruno ever KO anyone of Johansson's level ?

I'd say :
1. Yes.
2. Probably not ... but it's not necessarily beyond him at all, since Johansson wasn't especially durable.

That's all really. No need to overcomplicate it.

 

I think Frank can win this, but to do so, he probably has to show something more against a world class live opponent than we saw in real life.

It’s probably more straightforward for Ingo. He can win so long as he lands his best punches.

 

I agree strongly about divas sitting on their laurels for over a year without doing anything.
They post rubbish on social media, calling out this fighter and that fighter, but not fighting! Always hiding behind excuses.
How can it take so long for fights to get made?
It's become a joke.

The size thing is just evolution, I think. Form follows function, and I guess in today's age, being 6'6" and 240+ is what's getting the job done. The smaller guys have been weeded out simply by the results over the years.