Ingemar Johansson, 1958 vs Frank Bruno, 1986, who wins and why?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Can anybody explain me why Bonecrusher Smith is used as an example of excellent contender? He was never anything special and I really like watching his fights...
     
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  2. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member Full Member

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    If true, Ingo is coming off back to back KO losses, the last of which was a brutal war.


    Ingo had every right to take a soft touch no matter what he was offered. Nothing to be criticized for.

    This is also at least two or three years after Ingo cleaned out the European heavies and knocked out #1 Machen and Champion Patterson so hardly relevant.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  3. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If Smith was nothing special, then that is Bad news for Bruno fans.

    Smith defeated Bruno, and later demolished Witherspoon, after he had bested Bruno.

    Where are all the Bonecrusher Smith threads?
     
  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    3" height, 25 pounds in weight and 10" in reach .. that's a lot ..
     
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I don't know who views him was excellent but at his best he was vey big, extremely strong, had a solid chin and big time power .. he seemed up and down when it came to motivation but at his most motivated he KO'ed Bruno after losing the previous nine rounds, stayed in there in the first Witherspoon fight even though he took a terrible beating, fought a very tough bout w an aging Holmes and hung in there w a prime Tyson .. other times it looks like he packed it in early ...
     
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    They were comparable in height. Muhammad Ali was 6’3” and he did not dwarf Ingo in their filmed sparring session. Bruno was no bigger than Ali.
    The crux of the matter is Frank Bruno was never considered the best heavyweight in the world. He is eclipsed by both bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon. Two non ATG heavyweights.

    And none of them were any good or that relevant to the title picture when Frank beat them. Even Mcall was not considered the best heavyweight at the time. It’s just a fair win in historical terms.

    lol.
     
  7. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have to agree. He was average, though dangerous when motivated. But average.
     
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  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    If your argument is serious it's sad ...
     
  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sadly, that's one of his better posts. Guy is an agenda driven tool.
     
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  10. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Gerrie Coetzee had retired at the point he came over to fight Bruno. Duff, Barrett and Levene paid him £250,000. He'd just bought a farm with virtually all his ring earnings and couldn't refuse.
     
  11. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Richard M, you old devil ! Another proper head scratcher. Johansson and Bruno are both Fighters who come with huge question marks over many aspects of their all round game.
    For most of Ingo's career, it was very difficult to tell whether he was a good Fighter or not. He hit his opponent with the right which nailed them to the canvass. Not much else happened on the face of it. It's worth noting that he didn't get hit that much though.
    Bruno in 1986 was pretty similar but the pedigree of opponent was nowhere near Ingo's. His win over Anders Ecklund is probably equal to Ingo's over **** Richardson, (Both for the European Title), but there is no one like Henry Cooper or Eddie Machen on there.
    Frank was very good at rolling over smaller Heavyweights but those guys were far from ambitious, let alone World level.
    Frank relied hugely on his jab. Long and very heavy if never really sharp. Everything he did depended entirely on establishing the left.
    Ingo's jab didn't really exist. He tended to push and prod, just trying to find a gap for the Bingo. This got him slung out of the 1952 Olympic Final for "Not trying".
    If Johansson's going to win here, it has to be early, a la Machen and the first Patterson fight. Roll the dice on a right had counter over Bruno's predictable jab and count to 10. If it goes past 2, he's in a World of trouble, eating Bruno's jab and, as the fight develops, regular thumping rights.
    Frank tended to start fights well and so, for that reason, with no great conviction, I'm going to back him to starch a weary and lumpy Ingo in the 6th.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Have you found that one million dollar offer for Liston to meet Ingo in a non title fight yet?:lol:
     
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  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh ****, @Unforgiven I completely forgot. I was unfortunately wrong about the 1 millio dollar offer. It was a TWO million dollar offer AND it was for the title in August of '63. Source:
    This content is protected


    I'm almost positive Liston challenged Johannson when he was champion as well.
     
  14. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Really good post my friend.
     
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  15. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Well, Jess Willard was also big, powerful and durable - nobody makes him look like an excellent fighter though.

    By your own post, Smith's best efforts are beating Bruno (which doesn't mean much, as we're talking about how good Bruno truly was), losing a clear decision to Whiterspoon and giving tough fights to past prime Holmes.

    The truth is that he lost to almost every top fighter he faced. I like him, he's powerful and durable which makes him fun to watch, but he's also very slow oaf, yet he's used here as some kind of evolutionary HW monster.
     
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