This one has been a question on my mind for some time. I think it comes down to whether you consider Floyd Patterson great, and how close you think they are. On one hand, he won a fight against Patterson, and though he lost two, he put the man down twice in the third fight. He has an excellent back-up win against Eddie Machen, as well as Neahaus, Ten Hoff, Cooper, London, and Erskine. Also, it should be noted that his ONLY losses were to Patterson. So he and Patterson were pretty close. At one point, I did not consider Floyd a legit great, because most of his reign was a fraud with guys like Machen, Foley, and Cleveland Williams being eschewed for guy like Radamacher and McNeeley. And of course, Sonny Liston's shadow loomed over his entire tenure as champ. And therein is the problem. Whereas Patterson-Johansson was a great series, it was decidedly NOT with the two best heavies in the world. Liston was number one, and arguably, Cleve or even Foley could have been number 2. However, at the end of the day, Patterson does have wins over Bonevena, Cooper, Chavulo, London, Machen, Moore, Jackson, Johansson himself, and a couple of other notables. I think most people believe he beat Maxim, though I could be wrong. So I have re-considered that. Patterson is a great in my book, though a minor one, maybe somewhere in the top 20 or 25. So, what say you? Does Ingo get in the pantheon, or no?
Nay. Didn’t do enough at heavy most would agree on that, but he was a quality fighter. He destroyed Machen and Floyd - two quality wins and impressive performances.
No, obviously the win over Patterson was great, as was his kayo of the notoriously difficult Eddie Machen. I'll even give him bonus points for winning an Olympic silver medal and for climbing off the deck to beat Brian London, and then intelligently retiring thereafter. He definitely had the physical equipment, especially with his right hand, but even Ingo would concede that while he wasn't a huge partier, he was a slacker. Its interesting to consider some of the notably rivalries through boxing history: Zale-Graziano, Bowe-Holyfield, Ingo-Floyd, Pep-Saddler. In each of these rivalries, one guy became seriously out of shape after retirement while the other guy continued to exercise and remained fit. Bowe-Holyfield is the only case where the lazy guy came out ahead in the series. Morales-Barrera might become another example. It seems like Barrera still looked svelte the last time he was on tv, while Morales has been rolly polly for years now.
In a nutshell. Knocking out Floyd and Machen back to back when those two were the two best heavyweights in the world was a great feat. But that’s it. So absolutely The man was legitmate, but just lacked longevity.
That to me is what "greatness" is. That ability to fight at a consistently high level, fight after fight, for years. Many boxers have 2-3 fight "hot streaks" where they beat the best. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are greater than the guys they just beat. Rahman stopped Sanders and Lewis back to back iirc. Douglas stopped prime Tyson. That's some ability. But they were never greats.
Not great. A very good right handed puncher, who came along at the right time best describes him. Did not take a good punch. Not that fast on his feet either. I do think Ingo was important for boxing, though
Complex question. Ingo wasnt a great fighter but he had an all time great right hand that could certainly end things for better fighters. It was an equalizer. Where he suffers is his style is entirely predicated on landing that one punch. He was very good at hiding it and bringing it over but he was a one trick pony, one dimensional but it was a hell of a dimension. Lots of mediocre fighters would not only kill for power like that but it would take a lot of mediocre fighters to the next level.
I personally think that he could be a "great contender" and could be possibly be called dangerous. He had wins over Cooper, Patterson and 1 round destruction over Machen. If he fought more and longer such as Folley and Roy Harris, he could have been greater and HW's of the late 50's and early 60's could've been better. If I were to rank in his era it could be like this: 1. Sonny Liston 2. Zora Folley 3. Floyd Patterson 4. Ingemar Johansonn 5. Cleveland Williams 6. Eddie Machen 7. Henry Cooper 8. Ernie Terrell
You know the scenes in cartoons where a character spits out a mouthful of wine they just drank? Well that about sums up my response to this question.
Sorry! the spot that Cooper should've been Machen...\ And yes, Folley ahead of Patterson. Patterson start doing more at the mid to late 60's instead of the late 50's early 60's
