Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston 1959

Lol, I prefer my exclusive club of ONE.

Well, there was a time when it seemed that I was the only crazed Ingo supporter in the village - but even then, I couldn't stretch it out in Ingo's favor as much as I have been reading here.

If my man Ingo read any of this, even he would be saying "Yumpin' Yimminy! Get a grip!"

When one has to claim that Sonny "Sweet Pea" Liston basically ducked, dodged and rode with all of Williams' big punches - then one is clearly positing a very disingenuous argument or in dire need of a good set of spectacles.

Actually Swag, have you ever come across any comments from Williams re his matches vs Liston? If there are any, they would be an interesting read.

 

I agree. Considering our only two sources are one of the biggest jokes on here, who's had at least multiple accounts himself, and continues to lie about it, and another who claims Valdez had Liston bleeding, I'd say take it with a grain of salt.

Hmmm I'll have to look into it. Excellent question!

 

I reckon that was an extremely easy and very rapid decision.

 

Yeah, it’s a pretty cool club. I meet with myself once a week at my place - I put out a few nibbles and some beers. Never any arguments, always in total agreement on all things boxing.

 

It’s great that you think so.

 

I think you are being too hard on Williams here. The guys who beat Williams after he was shot were all good. Mac Foster. Al Blue Lewis. No shame in losing to them before he was gunned down of you ask me. George Chuvalo. These were good guys. Williams even won the Texas state title against Terry Daniels in one of his last fights. If you take Tod Herring and Terry Daniels, decent wins after being gunned down, and put them with John Holman and Alex Miteff from before he took a bullet theres not much difference in calibre other than ranking. So Williams maintained a level throughout. The guys he lost to before he was shot down like Liston and satterfield were a cut above anyway. He went 1-1 with Terrell so that’s not too bad.

where is the evidence Ingo received “serious brain damage” from the London fight? Johanssons health never suffered until much later in life. No more than Floyd Patterson or any number of champions.

I don’t see any evidence for this at all. Without his punch, Ingo could box and outpoint rated fighters if need be. Even in his last fight he could do that much. He had a very emphatic win over Machen remember. It’s a little disappointing that you are pushing for a way Machen could win a rematch.

 

Yes some decent fighters and wins but would they have beaten Williams in a rematch? Any good win can from now on be ignored thanks to Swag

 

There's this legend that Johansson dominated every round against London until getting caught in the closing seconds. The Associated Press described the fight as "surprisingly even" and said that London "would have earned at least a draw if the fight had lasted a little longer".

https://ibb.co/gw8TwJg

 

Nice find. Johansson looked rusty and was bothered by a cut. Doesn’t sound like the prime version that Swag is talking about (but AP may have an agenda whereas Swag is clearly unbiased so I’ll go with Swag’s version). Of course, the number of rounds were decided before the bout started so having the fight go longer was out of question. Interesting that they thought draw not London win. Means that they thought Ingo would recover from the kd.

In any case I think this fight is irrelevant as it was his final fight. Some posters are desperately using this fight to prove a point because they can find no other flaw in Ingo’s very solid record. Only fights he lost were in world championship bouts. How many other fighters can say that?
How many other fighters do you judge based on their last fight? Or in Ingos case, the last 5 seconds, in the last round, in his last fight?
A fight he still won. I think anyone can see how absurd this is.

 

You've been killing it of late mate.

 

Does anyone know how many fights Ingemar had? Sounds like 40 or 50 with all this wear and tear.

 

He ended his career 26-2. It's arguable that the 2nd best fighter he has a winning record (or even fought and doesn't have a losing record) against is a 14-4 Henry Cooper, who had been stopped by Peter Bates & Joe Bygraves in his previous 2 fights and lost on points to Joe Erskine in his next fight.

It's true Ingo only ever lost twice, to the excellent Patterson, and true that he also beat him once & has an impressive 1-round KO over Machen. Beyond that, his win resume is amongst the thinest of all the lineal HW champions in history. There are other candidates for the 2nd best fighter he has a winning record against beyond a green Cooper, but none that contradict my previous sentence.

 

Only 28 fights? All this talk about being in his last fight....that's the sort of scenario i expect to see 40+ fights from.

Just looking now, all these excuses for Ingo being in his last fight, his 28th, and London himself was in his 38th!!!!!!! He'd also been stopped multiple times. He'd lost 6 of his last 12 fights. Maybe some excuses for poor old Brian are in order.

 

This is so dumb. Boxers often hang them up too late but can’t think of any hanging them up too early. I trust that Ingo was a better judge as to when the right time was rather than you.

 

You've been so dumb this entire thread.....post after post after post you and chok have made one eyed DKSAB fools of yourselves.

My point absolutely stands that your silly one eyed self only has eyes and bias for Ingo. London had toiled more times than Ingo and taken his share of losses yet you only see one side of the story. You've done it the entire thread and will for the rest of your life.

Shame is you won't get any real traction ever because Ingo simply isn't near as good or highly rated as you think he is.

Unlucky really.