Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston

Could this have been to avoid Liston's deadly left hook?

Machen went into Ingo's backyard. Machen did not know what he was up against. If he did know about Ingo's Toonder and Lightning, he underestimated it. Machen fought Liston, Williams knowing there reputation going in. He fought extremely defensive against liston and williams, very cautious. On the otherhand, he engaged with johansson. Had eddie known about Ingo's right, he could have fought more defensively for the rematch.

1. Yes it is an exuse

2. Even though its an excuse, I did add it does nothing to take away the merit from Johansson's victory over machen. Only explain why Liston and Williams were unable to take out Eddie.

3. Based on the recent crop of European fighters not making a splash on the world class scene, it's easy to see why Johansson was often overlooked.

4. The last thing floyd remembered about Johansson was him fighting "Scared for his life" against Ed Sanders. This clearly lowered Floyd's expectations of Johansson, no?

1. Ingo wasn't even throwing his right hand at all. His best weapon, and he wouldn't use it once. Why? Because he wanted to surprise patterson's camp come fight night.

 

:think Sandbagging, eh?

Liston reads this thread before the match and encounters SuzieQ49's posts. He concludes that Johansson poses no threat. Nope. None whatsoever. Eaaaasy night......

Johansson KO 1.

 

Corrie Sanders left was better than Johansson's right. Johansson was not a super fighter.

Sanders KO 1 Johansson

 

That goes without saying. Johansson, while great, was no Super Southpaw.

 

Liston looked slightly off balance to me, I don't think he was in any trouble there, he didn't go into a shell, or look to hold. He took all Cleve Williams shots ,and Wiliams was, throwing the kitchen sink at him. Ingo could hit but I dont think he rates with the best bangers, If Marciano nailed Patterson with his right , I don't think Floyd would have got up multiple times,before being stopped by the ref.

 

this is the most ludicrous list ever. in 1984 ring magazine writers did not have acces to records and film via the internet. if they had they would truly respect history unless this was a joke they wouldnt have done it.

 

Nino Valdes and Mike Dejohn, both tall large fighters who could really wack. Liston took their best punches without blinking. A shame these fights arnt available to the public on film just yet, or else people would witness the steel chin Liston demonstrated.

 

If you take this list seriously, it means that Liston's two biggest ko's were over the man with the all-time glassiest glass jaw.

 

Yep. :yep

 

Moore got up quite a few times against Marciano. Much like Floyd he could be put down but was difficult to keep down. I'm not sure if I'd pick Rocky to KO Patterson in 2 rounds although it's possible. A lot of it has to do with Patterson respecting Marciano's reputation, while under-estimating Johansson.

Liston wasn't hurt really but he got hit solid with a right hand early, over his jab. I could point to Liston-Ali II also, but that would be a bit much. I still think Liston got caught cold legit while throwing a jab although it certainly shouldn't have been enough to keep him down for the 10 count. Liston was obviously washed up against Martin, but Martin timed him nicely over Liston's jab, which was of course slower by then.

Cleveland Williams was a left hooker and I thought Liston did a nice job blocking and rolling with most of Williams's punches. I'm not predicting Johansson to accomplish anything more than Williams may have in his two bouts with Liston.

 

the 55 marciano was a much different puncher than the 51-52 Marciano. Floyd does a lot better if he faces a 54-55 volume punching marciano vs the 51-52 one punch slugging swarmer version of the rock

It was a Looping overhand right. Johansson did not throw those. He threw straight right hands down the pipe. I think that evidence above points more to marciano landing a rex layne type suzy Q on liston.

You also hadvn't seen film of Liston taking Valdes and Dejohn's best stuff. Two very hard punchers with size.

 

Johansson right was absolutely devastating.
Ok, Patterson had a glass jaw, but i dont think Eddie Machen did. Or did Machen have a glass jaw too ?

Johansson had nothing except his right, and he didn't always land that properly either. He wasn't a particularly good fighter, an even weaker champ than Patterson.

Really ?
I think Rocky has more than a chance against Liston, and not just because of his right.

 

Moore was over 40.
Liston didnt seem to have much trouble with Floyd.

 

I'd say that Johansson threw whatever kind of right hand that worked. Against the tall Hein Ten Hoff, he used a more looping right hand. Against the bobbing & weaving Patterson, he punched downwards. Against Richardson, he simply clubbed him down with a wide swing.

I'm not sure if he took Valdes's best stuff. DeJohn was also a left hooker. Liston to me was good dealing with these types. He had solid defensive skills, but as a stationary jabber he was somewhat open for the right hand.