Ingo on Liston against Machen

Zora folley had great lateral movement, he was actually a better boxer than machen. look what happened to him vs liston. theres only so much you can do.



I suspect ingo vs liston would have looked something like when he fought ed sanders, ingo being terrified of the big man and acting like a cowardly chicken(which is what marciano thought of ingo). btw, liston with basically no experience fought sanders in the very next fight and handled sanders.

 

My problem isnt his opinion. its he he attempted to trash talk and degrade sonny liston calling him "Slow" and stuff like that, yet when liston challenged him, ingo turned him down flat. All bark, no bite. thats just being a coward. back up what you say.

 

One thing I will say about ingos talent. When he threw that right hand, he would step his back foot back a small unoticeable step giving him him an extra boost and leverage in his right hand shot, check the machen fight where he nailed him with that first right hand, you can see it. its the little subtle things that make a difference. only one other fighter ever did that technique, mike tyson. watch as he nails the first right on holmes, he takes a small step back and BOOOOM! extra power extra leverage its not just coming from your shoulder but all through ur legs too.......holmes didnt know where he was.

 

This is because Liston had a HUGE size advantage SuzieQ. Liston long arms, combined with his power and skills made him a terror vs smaller / shorter armed, non power punching fighters.

Regarding Liston, he might have had the slowest hands of any ATG great heavy.

 

Some fighters that look slow on film sudenly dont look so slow when the punches are coming at you.

 

I think you're being a little over-sensitive here. Attempted trash-talk?

It's not like Ingo went to Liston's house at night and called him a big ugly bear did he? He was merely asked his opinion and genuinely said what he thought. As for fighting Liston, that would've been a good thing...... if he wasn't battling for the heavyweight championship of the world against Patterson!




As for Folley, he had better lateral movement, but also a glass chin which doesn't really help against a big puncher like Liston.

 

His hands learnt that from his feet.

 

Based on the quotes that Old Fogey has provided us with from Johanson, it does not seem to me that he was trash talking at all. He simply said things like " he looks slow ", but as Machen was evading him, or " I thought he would have been better. "

The man was asked his opinion while watching a fight where Liston was not looking particularly dominant. If the very first fight of Muhammad Ali that he had seen was Ali vs Doug Jones, would he have been full of compliments? I mean afterall, what was he supposed to say about Liston? Should he have tried to soften the blow? Perhaps he should have said this " oh its totally understandable how he missed Machen with that attempt, Eddie is the best boxer since Sugar Ray Robinson. I'm sure Liston is like grease lightening in real life. "
Common......

 

I really think it would have been both interesting as well as helpful to the sport if Ingo had beaten Patterson the second time around. Of course, Patterson's career may have ended, and he never would have had the claim to being the first two time champ, but the flipside is that we would have had a very good undefeated champion with a good punch. Johanson is a fighter who's legacy could have very easily been strengthened with the right angles...