Ingo on Liston against Machen

On an unrelated topic, ( probably better for private messaging ), did you ever read any of Ernest Hemmingway's works?

Years ago, I read one of his short stories, but can't remember the name of it. Anyway, it involved an old Swedish fighter who was sought out by a detective. As the plot unfolded, it turns out this fighter was being tracked by the mafia for winning a fight that he was supposed to have thrown. Of course this story was likely written years before Ingo was ever known, therefore likely was not inspired by his career. But, Hemmingway stories always make for interesting conversation.

 

That must have been the story I was thinking of. Thanks. I read some of these Hemingway short stories many years ago, but can only remember bits and pieces of them. I really should go to the book store, or better yet on e-bay and see about purchasing a collection of his works. He was truly a great author who found appreciation in the simplistic normalities of everyday life. " the killers " and " The Battler ", are two stories I'll have to acquire..

 

A point I want to make about Liston's speed a short arm puncher like Tyson or Patterson can look fast on film because there punches are simply shorter than a fighter like Liston. Liston with his long armss on a relatively short body make him look gangly and slow remember he has the same reach as the Klitschkos and Lewis but is six odd inches shorter.
I think Liston in real life was a lot faster than old films show.

 

Slow or fast, guys got hit by him and they did not seem to enjoy the consequences. Sometimes these components of a boxer's ability are not reducible to one aspect, that is, viewed in a vacuum with only one criteria. Liston made his speed- whatever it was- work. He found a way to get his punches to connect and his punches hurt bad.

 

I dont know that Liston was as slow as he is made out to be. He predominantly threw long punches and the fact that he had obscenely long arms is going to exagerate the peceived lack of speed on them. He was generally pretty smart and kept guys at the end of his range and used his reach well. Machen may not have got tagged but he sure wasnt laying much on either coz he knew what happened when he got too close. Foley couldnt get away. Alis uncanny ability to make guys miss without moving away is ultimately what undid Sonny, this allowed him to stay in range and tag Liston back.

 

Liston fought heavily. The way he moved and punched seemed slow, but it was also strikingly heavy and powerful. He oozed power that was beyond his size. It's no surprise to me that his hands moved as they did -they were packed with power that was not of the fast twitch fiber type.

Liston's imposing physicality seemed to compensate for his slow hands. Most fighters who have relatively slow hands aren't able to walk in behind shots and put the guy automatically on the defensive. Liston was quite literally like a tank, the shots come slow and you can hear them load, but it's hard to get out of the way because he's coming, coming, coming.

He could be as predictable as the tide, sluggish in some fights against movers (Clay, Machen, McMurray in 68)... but he could also start stomping right at his man and throw a wide array of short, hard shots to the body and head. When that happened, unless you had a dancer's legs, you were in big trouble. Even as late as '66 against Zech you could still see the dangerousness in Sonny.

 

Interesting article OF.

 

Delete.

 

Top little post. Alexis Arguello seemed pretty slow and ponderous at times but sure found his way around it with other subtle intangibles. Many will watch Monzon and find him slow and uninspiring on film but his results are incredible. Etc.

 

I think Ingo would get kayoed early. ingo had a really weak jaw, and sonny is going to tag him. ingo was pretty stationary and was there to be hit.

 

I dont see how. liston beat fighters like big cat williams, FLOYD PATTERSON , zora folley who were all better than ingamer johansson. I see it as being just another top contender on his resume.


lets not forget, ingo was twice knocked out by floyd patterson who liston destroyed twice with relative ease. ed sanders made ingo look like a tool, and a embryo liston busted up ed sanders. we dont know how good ingo was since he failed to take on many of the top big american punchers nino valdez, sonny liston, cleveland williams during the era. could he have defeated these big guys?

 

In my latest addition to Sonny Liston Appreciation Week (or is it decade or even century) I have to concur. The intriguing part of the Ingo match-up is there exists the very real potential of him timing Liston and putting him in a world of hurt. However, the odds are the scenario would play out in 6 rounds or under, not due to any glass jaw (Patterson hit with speed and explosion) but due to the aforementioned stationary nature.

 

So it's perfectly legit to judge Ingo's career on a fight that took place in the amateur ranks but to blithely dismiss the Marshall affairs because Liston was supposedly green?