Ingo on Liston against Machen

Well, a year ago he wouldn't go beyond that Johansson was a "Euro bum" and a big ******* because he didn't outline his right hand strategy to Patterson before the fight. He's gone soft... :yep

 

BTW Ingo is the only HW champion who only fought opponents with winning records. He was an excellent boxer and in his Autobio claimed he was playing a waiting game against Sanders not wishing to lead. IMo he was better than Folley, Machen, Williams (overated) but would only have a very slim chance v Sonny-say one in ten.But opponents like Erskine, the two big Germans, Bysgraves, Richardson etc were also useful as of course was Cooper.

 

Autobiographies is basically story telling, but then written down. We all know how that goes. You catch a 3 inch goldfish and tell your neighbour about wrestling with a decent sized fish. One week later, the guy on the end of your street is asking you how have you wrestled with a small shark on the end of your fishing rod.

But hey, if there are people smart enough to believe tales of someone carrying a 180lbs deer for 10 miles or having people take shots at someone with a sledgehammer to the chin for 10 dollars to "toughen up", why not write it?



I believe this is one of the reasons that Jeffries, Johnson and Dempsey kept ending up higher than Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano in all-time ratings up to the 60's and a bit beyond. Back then, people relied a lot more on what they read than fight film or comparison of records because the latter two were hardly available to most people. That man who had seen Dempsey said he was greater than Louis, so it had to be true.

 

"If you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you"


Damn, i wish i'd thought of that on my first reply. It was too early for Nietsche.

 

I was going to make the same comment on Johannson's, winning record as well. I think just about every fighter he ever faced had more numbers in the win column than losses, with the exception of a man he faced in his pro debut who was 3-3. Usually, even the greatest champions have begun in their prospect days fighting the usual 3-7-2 bums, but Ingo never did. It would be interesting to see how many other heavyweight champions can claim this.

 

Is his resume that impressive ? Do you think? Hank Kaplan a well respected historian ,put Liston firmly in his top 5, can you think of a historian who would put Ingo in his top 15?

 

I'll put it differently ,Cleveland Williams ,against Ingo,what would you say the odds would be?

 

Ingo vs Liston. Well if I recall what my father told me about those days was that after the second Patterson fight for Liston, Ingo was asked for a titlefight against Liston and he said something like: Do you think i´m stupid?
Don´t know how true it is but in my opinion Ingo would not have a chance against Sonny Liston.
All the best
The Predator

 

I don't think the intent was to compare him to Sonny Liston or at least not on my part. Ingo's resume is very impressive nonetheless. For a man who retired from the sport with less than 30 pro fights, I'd say he acheived quite a bit and met a fair number of decent opponents.

By the way, I don't have Liston in my top 5 either, regardless of Hank Kaplan's assessment of him.

 

unbelievable who would have thought a unpopular euro porn star would get so much defense over a ATG heavyweight. I guess only on ESB does johansson get so much respect. its hilarious too because I see the same posters that defend ingo to death in this thread rip into floyd patterson on other threads, the same patterson who knocked the shito out of johansson

This content is protected

. I strongly wish marciano had come out of retirement and beat the living daylights out of ingo in 1959.


Ingo was nowhere near a great fighter, and is nowhere near listons class, and be thankful for ingos sake they never met. lets leave it at that.

 

were talking styles make fights right? h2h right? not accomplishments. I think ingemar would have struggled with the top skilled punchers liston williams valdez stylistically. I also think if folley doesn't get caught, he outboxes johansson easily.

 

A large, strong fighter like Cleveland Williams may have troubled Johansson, perhaps even beaten him, but I wouldn't exactly call this a given. Johasson defeated better fighters than Williams, and certainly had the tools to get the job done against Cleveland.

 

were machen and patterson better than williams? williams drew with machen in a fight the majority thought williams edged, and williams most likely would have done a liston to patterson.

Ingo never fought a fighter of williams size power and speed. Ingo had a glass jaw. he thought pattersons left hook was hard, imagine what williams left hook will be like.

 

Just to add my opinion to some of the talk on this thread especially Ingemar. To watch Ingemar on film you get the impression that he's nothing special at all. He seems sort of slow, stationary, and has no left at all. But then you take a look and he has two big early ko's of Patterson and Machen as well as a handful of lesser but respectable wins. He got the most out of what he had, I'd call him an overachiever who carried a big right hand. Ingo would probably rate in the top 30-40 in heavyweight history.

As far as Liston-Ingo, that would be an ugly beating waiting for Ingo. He matches up bad with Liston and is atleast a level below him. Liston probably gets rid of Ingo within 4-5 rounds. As far as Ingo-Williams, now that would have been interesting. I'm not sure who to take but I do think Williams can get overated by some. Would have been nice to see that one played out.