Ingo on Liston against Machen

O my lord, old fogey. you actually brought up losses against folley and machen when they were 100% washed up. how could a honest man like you stoop so low?

most of them refused to fight him he was too big and fast

LOL none of the euros dared entered the ring vs liston. henry cooper said he feared two men, rocky marciano and sonny liston. cooper wouldnt fight liston.

are you serious about the mildenberger loss? eddie machen was 100% shot when he fought mildenberger. the very fact u bring this loss up means your grasping at straws. this loss doesnt count for anything. the only euro machen ever lost too near his prime was johansson.

did u really bring up the london fight? dear god, folley was more shot to peices than a bulls eye at 50 yards. this loss doesnt count for ****. folley was wayyyy gone. folley was past his prime i think 33 years old was it when he drew with mildenberger, certainly a prime folley would have had his way with him.


folley in his prime outside of the controversial cooper loss(which was brutally avenged) pretty much dominated the euros



I see how you left out nino valdez, who pretty much wiped out the entire european border guys like neuhas sys erkstine london richardson etc all were brutalized by valdez.

 

Joe Louis went 0-2 vs charles and marciano, wuts ur point? you took losses from folley and machen when they were far past there prime

 

pop in the film of machen vs frazier right around the time he fought mildenberger. machen in 1966 looks slow as molasses, his reflexes are shot, his movement is gone. he is a shell. pop in the tape of a late 1950s machen he looks far better. machen was a old 33, he really was way past it by 66. machen looked horrible vs patterson in 64. the fact eddie was able to beat a young quarry despite being way past it is an incredible achievement.

once again, how could you possibly count the mildenberger fight? machen was all washed up, he looked horrible by 1966 i mean horrible. badly declined.

london was not a good fighter in the first place, so theres not much more he can deteriorate. if you watch folley vs ali, folley is fatter softer much slower than he was in his prime but he still gives ali problems. folley in his prime 1950s was far better than brian london could even imagine to be. folley forgot mroe about boxing than london would ever know. folley was about 36 when he took on london, he was way washed up.

I thought folley went 2-0 vs cooper, knock down and outbox. easy 2 round kayo over cooper in rematch. folley was 100% washed up when he fought london, doesnt even count. you bring up mildenberger once again, he seems to like taking on these guys when they are way over the hill. folley like machen was pretty far over the hill by 64, its quite clear on the film. yet mildenberger still did not beat him.

mildenberger? i dont think he was very good. he beat a washed up eddie machen in a meaningless fight, and drew with a far past his prime folley. what did he do? he is a decently skilled southpaw, but hes medicore in most areas.Dick Richardson knocked out karl mildenberger in one round. valdez williams and dejohn all easily beat richardson.

Nino Valdez pretty much dominated the entire european heavyweight scene of the 1950s. he knocked out joe erksine in 1 round. joe erkskine twice beat henry cooper.


cooper and mildenberger were pretty much journeyman level talent fighters on film. if thats the best you got, perhaps the euro scene was worse than we thought.


Ingo was good, but thats 1 very good euro fighter from 1955-1970.


There were at least a dozen very good american heavyweights from 1955 to 1970.

 

my evidence is outside of ingo and one controversial henry cooper win that was avenged, no european heavyweight was able to defeat near prime versions of folley, machen, liston, patterson, williams and valdez. most of the euro scene never made it into the top 10 ring magazine rankings. my last peice of evidence is film. outside of ingo, all the other euro heavyweights of that era looked extremley average, i mean very average.

Nino Valdez pretty much dominated the entire european heavyweight scene of the 1950s. he knocked out joe erksine in 1 round. joe erkskine twice beat henry cooper.


Dick Richardson knocked out karl mildenberger in one round. valdez williams and dejohn all easily beat richardson.

 

hey pontius why dont u all tell us how ernie terell kayoed cleveland williams . far too many non americans on esb.

 

when did mildenberger face machen and folley when they were even close to there prime???? folley and machen were way over the hill fighters by the mid 1960s. as far as im concerned mildenberger fought in a different era than folley and machen.


henry cooper was blasted out by floyd patterson and zora folley in under 5 rounds



nino valdez whom you dont even rate as one of the best american heavyweights of that era, destroyed the entire european heavyweight scene during the 1950s.

 

A random slip-up of the mind as evidence for too many "non americans" on the board. Great comeback.


Since when did this become a nationalistic issue anyway? Ingo's accompishements are very impressive, whether you think he's a "euro bum" or not. Even Liston didn't like him !