Ingo vs Butterbean

You didn't respond to the substantive part of my post.

 

If it's true then it proves Butterbean has the better chin, which is what we were discussing. Butterbean received more damage and yet wasn't KOd while Ingo was, twice.

 

Butterbean never faced a quality puncher, so we have no idea if he would have been stopped by the one or not.

 

You're not understanding the clash of styles here. Butterbean had a cinder block chin. I admitted in my very first post the only things he's bringing to the table are a great chin and good power, every other advantage goes to Ingo.

Power is power, speed is speed, chin is chin. Wilder has a fairly crappy resume but his power was still legitimate when he stepped up in class. Someone who has a solid chin never even taking a knee usually still has a solid chin even when they step up. You don't go from having a granite chin against low level opposition to having a glass jaw against the first solid contender you fight.

As for styles, the only reason I even give Butterbean a chance is because Ingo had a very patient and cautious style, reserving his right hand like a shotgun with limited ammo until he was certain he could land flush and the opponent is off guard. Ingo was infamous for this strategy even in the amateurs annoying the crowd with his inactivity giving away rounds. If Ingo fights the way he usually does against a fast starter like Butterbean who hits like a truck, he'll run into serious problems unless he can manage to outbox Bean or turn things around with a TKO. Ingo doesn't have the legs and technique to outbox a tank like Butterbean.

 

Plenty of guys step up and either their chin fails them, or their power just isn't there like at lower levels. It's almost a staple of watching British prospects unravel above domestic level.

Also Ingo's legs are fine, infact they were a big asset against Patterson.

 

Believe me, I do. We have a world level fighter who could struggle against high volume, powerful punchers and a circus act who beat other circus acts during his career, who is known for being fat.

You have no idea how his chin or power would translate against world level competition. His power gave no impression on grandpa Holmes.

Wilder has a crappy resume compared to elite HWs, but he at least faced world level opponents for most of his career. Comparing that to Butterbean is dishonest.

Actually, a lot of fighters look durable until they reach top level. It's quite normal situation. Butterbean never stepped up, he always fought trash competition.

Have you really seen this "tank" in action? He couldn't box, literally. He had no defense and didn't even try to prove that. It's ridiculous to say that a world level boxer like Ingo didn't have technique to outbox him. Ingo would land at will on him charging forward wide open.

 

The cases where guys chins fail them when they step up is often because they simply never got hit with much and steam rolled their opponents. People don't pay much attention to how much they actually got tagged.

Power is power. It only fails when stepping up if the opponent outclasses them and doesn't let them land much.

Being ranked or having a belt doesn't suddenly magically give you a superhuman ability to absorb punishment or increase your punching power. The only difference is the fighters experience where we see an improvement in technique to better land their power shots in a more effective way. Or an improvement in a boxers ability to roll with punches, protect themselves better in the case of chin. Power and chin don't really improve past your late 20's, only technique does.

Ingo and Patterson were the same size and Patterson had quick hands but wasn't a speed demon with his feet. It's gonna be harder for Ingo to get away from a 300 pound bulldozer who doesn't stop coming forward.

 

These posts are pretty much the definition of intellectual dishonesty.

 

You can make fun of Butterbean all you want, it doesn't change the fact he's a high volume fighter regardless of the difference in resume

Power is power, chin is chin. World class fighters aren't marvel superheroes with stats 10x higher than regular boxers. In fact there's multiple examples in history of guys having power/chin better than the highest ranked boxers in their division. Shavers was feared for his punch and Chuvalo was noted for his chin, and to this day both often get put on top 5 lists for those categories.

You'd be surprised how many boxers name guys who never won anything at world level as having the best power, speed, chin, etc in best I faced interviews. Or maybe you're aware of this but you want to ignore it. Keith Thurman said Antoine Echols hit him harder than anyone, a journeyman with a whopping 22 losses.

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No I'm not being dishonest. If Wilder never fought fury or Ortiz and died tragically beforehand, would you look at the 40+ brutal KOs and say "nah, his power isn't legit" while ignoring all the guys going to sleep twitching on the ground? Power is power. A guy who racks up a bunch of brutal early KOs is going to hurt anyone they land flush on.

If Butterbean got stopped when stepping up it would have nothing to do with the ranked fighters hitting 10x harder than regular boxers, the difference would be better technique and timing.

How many times did Ingo "outbox" a large opponent who had an extremely aggressive style with his own passive, defensive, low output style? I'll wait.

 

Butterbean was a high volume fighter for a two rounds, when his opponent is overwhelmed because he can't defend himself properly from wild swings. That's nothing for Ingo.

Again, you are comparing relatively successful world contenders against bum who never fought anybody worth mentioning. Shavers and Chuvalo were very limited, but for world level standards. They'd crush Butterbean and any of his opponents.

If Wilder never fought Ortiz or Fury, his power would still be proven against opponents Butterbean never faced and would never face. Besides, Bean could have Shavers power but his punching ability it wouldn't make a difference. He was horrible.

Yes and that's my point for the whole time? If you really think that my take is that ranked fighters are superhumans, then I'm surprised that you find my intelect so low...

How many times Ingo fought club fighters in his pro career? Also, calling Butterbean "large" is a comedy...

 

Johansson wins, barring a lucky punch

 

Butterbean has multiple KOs past the 2nd round.

And I said in my very first post if Ingo survives the early rounds, his superior technique, experience, and ability should get him the win.

If I bring up bums who have been given praise for their power/chin despite having zero world class accomplishments will you shift the goal posts again?

There isn't a huge difference between pre Ortiz Wilders resume and Butterbean until he fought guys like Arreola.

Power is power. If Ali stood completely still and Butterbean hit him with his best punch to the jaw Ali would get hurt.

Not once did I say Butterbean had world class skil or punching ability, but anything can happen in the first few rounds when Butterbean still has the stamina and aggression to throw bombs. You refuse to acknowledge Ingo was a slow starter with a low punch output and this could get him in trouble against a huge guy throwing non stop cannonballs. I actually picked Ingo to win this fight more often than not.

I never said you have low intellect. You're actually one of the better posters on this side and make many good points.

But in this case you seem to think that a low level boxer has zero chance of landing a KO blow on a superior opponent and are ignoring the clash of styles. You even expressed doubt on Butterbean's chin while simultaneously stating he had horrible defensive. If a guy has bad defense, is slow, and has been in more than 90 fights, at some point you'd think he'd had least take a knee if his chin was bad. Like I said, say whatever you want about Butterbeans opposition but he wasn't elite either. Which means that if there isn't a big gap in skill between himself and his opponents then surely he should have been badly hurt more often? You can't have it both ways.

Please don't answer questions with a question.

I'm asking you when did Ingo ever outbox a big hard hitting opponent who attacked him with non stop aggression? They don't even need to be Butterbeans size, any guy over 210 will do.

 

I'm glad to hear that and I respect your opinion as well. Let's just agree to disagree on that matter. I already spent too much time on Butterbean thread...

 

I respect and admire Butterbean but he did not have a granite chin ... here he is in a pro loss by 2wnd round KO to a 1 - 6 pro ..

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To say he hit harder than Ingo is completely unfounded based on level of competition .. Imago ices him in a few ..

 

Ingo by a knockout with that famed Bingo right hand. Ingo could box, Butterbean would have to drag his flabby carcass around the ring looking to land. By round 6 after stumbling around the ring, he gets caught, you guessed it by the dreaded Bingo. The whole ring shakes as Butterbean hits the canvas and is counted out.