INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Feb 4, 2011.


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  1. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Much has been said about this sparring session.

    The 'two' were in the ring, and did participate in a brief 5-minute session.

    Was it pre-staged or legitimate.
     
    Il Duce, Feb 4, 2011
    Il Duce, Feb 4, 2011
    #1
  2. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ingemar Johannson.

    After the Monday Morning sparring session.

    Ingos' conversation with Lew Eskin, Ring Magazine

    "He's good this fellow" Johansson said.
    "He did alot of jumping around, and isn't a bit like Patterson as
    he changes around too much. I hope I can get him for more sparring
    as he sharpens me up"

    "After I beat Patterson, and regain the Championship, I may ask him to come to Europe,
    and fight on the undercard of my Title Defense"
     
    Il Duce, Feb 4, 2011
    Il Duce, Feb 4, 2011
    #2
  3. Dynamite

    Dynamite Heavy Leather Full Member

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    Within moments of entering the ring with Johansson Clay was running rings around his opponent, picking him off with razor sharp jabs and making himself look like anything but the challenger for the World Heavyweight crown. if that infuriated Johansson, Clays constant taunting sent him over the edge. Im the one who should be fighting Patterson, not you, he yelled. Come on, here i am. Come and get me sucker. Come on whats the matter? Cant you hit me?

    The more Clay provoked Johansson the more the Swede lunged at him, throwing punches that missed by a country mile, while all the time Clay bounced around him, clipping him at will. Fearing the worst, Johanssons trainer Whitey Bimstein cut the session short after just 2 rounds.
     
    Dynamite, Feb 4, 2011
    Dynamite, Feb 4, 2011
    #3
  4. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If this sparring session was in 1960, early 1961, then Cassius Clay was just fighting 4 round fights.

    Yes, he could dance around in an amateur type style, but Clay hadn't even fought Doug Jones yet......so Ingo would have laid him out in a real pro fight at any distance in rounds.
     
    Longhhorn71, Feb 4, 2011
    Longhhorn71, Feb 4, 2011
    #4
  5. Dynamite

    Dynamite Heavy Leather Full Member

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    Once Clay had gone 'dancin with Johansson' his confidence soared..

    Clays next opponent was LaMar Clark who was 43W 42KO 2L... Clay stopped him in the 2nd round. it was only Clays 6th pro fight.
     
    Dynamite, Feb 5, 2011
    Dynamite, Feb 5, 2011
    #5
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    There is footage of this. And Clay looks very wound up and amateurish.
     
    Seamus, Feb 5, 2011
    Seamus, Feb 5, 2011
    #6
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Johansson was very out-of-shape by all accounts. Even by fight time he was in bad shape. I think a lot of heavyweights IN SHAPE could have beaten hell out of that Johansson, never mind make him look a bit foolish in training.
    And the "eye witness" accounts that make up the legend of this sparring sessions seem to paint a different picture than some of the people here who seen it say.

    Where can I see this footage ?

    Someone mentioned Lamar Clark - his record was built against guys who probably weren't even boxers, he was a carnival act at best.
     
    Unforgiven, Feb 5, 2011
    Unforgiven, Feb 5, 2011
    #7
  8. Dynamite

    Dynamite Heavy Leather Full Member

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    At 19yrs old Clay was in great shape and jumped at the chance of sparring former HW champ Ingemar Johansson. Like it or not, that day Clay had his measure!
     
    Dynamite, Feb 5, 2011
    Dynamite, Feb 5, 2011
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What reason exists to call into question its legitimacy?
     
    McGrain, Feb 5, 2011
    McGrain, Feb 5, 2011
    #9
  10. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The 19 year old Cassius clay was already phenomenally fast. I've no doubt that Ingo had genuine problems.
     
    Stevie G, Feb 5, 2011
    Stevie G, Feb 5, 2011
    #10
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The sparring session was Monday, late-morning, February 6, 1961.

    It did happen.
    But, Cassius Clay was fighting the next night, Tuesday February 7, in
    the same ring (Convention Hall), versus replacement fighter "Slim Jim' Robinson.

    One wonders, what manager/trainer would put his young fighter in the ring with a
    hard-punching world-rated fighter, when his young protoge' had a fight scheduled for the next night.......

    Could some staging have been done,,,,,,,,,,,,,absolutely.
    Look at the film closely.
     
    Il Duce, Feb 5, 2011
    Il Duce, Feb 5, 2011
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I imagine staged sparring is very rare. I think light sparring is very common. If it was staged, why is the world class fighter playing the role of mug?
     
    McGrain, Feb 5, 2011
    McGrain, Feb 5, 2011
    #12
  13. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's true that neither man was going all out,but as I said,the young Cassius Clay was already phenomenally fast.
     
    Stevie G, Feb 5, 2011
    Stevie G, Feb 5, 2011
    #13
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, the young Mr. Clay is/was exceptionally fast, and probably would have won
    a 5-round decision over the out-of-shape Ingo.

    But what the film doesn't show and never did.
    Otha Brown, a very fast Miami Beach Light Heavyweight did the same thing
    in the ring with Ingo, for 2-Rounds.
     
    Il Duce, Feb 5, 2011
    Il Duce, Feb 5, 2011
    #14
  15. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Funny things can happen in sparring and exhibition matches. Jack Dempsey and Willie Meehan come to mind.
     
    Stevie G, Feb 5, 2011
    Stevie G, Feb 5, 2011
    #15
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