Interesting quote on Joe Louis from Billy Conn trainer Johnny Ray

Did Conn actually weigh 168 lbs .....but they fudged the scale up a little at the official "weigh-in".

 

There is an element of truth in the quote.

I mean, who actualy did best against Louis anywhere close to his prime?

Clearly Conn.

The runner up prize going to Godoy.

If we go back a bit before his prime, then you have Schmeling and Farr.

None of these guys ran from Louis, or tried to win by boxing.

 

A few thoughts : Joe Louis in my opinion was a little past his prime in 1941, when he was outhustled by a great 168 pound Billy Conn. His reflexes in the Billy Conn bout was nowhere's as sharp as the lethal fighting machine that crushed Max Baer and Max Schmeling #2.
I truly believe Billy Conn [so damn underated as a GREAT LH] would have not lasted 6 rounds with the helacious punching Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight...Watch the Baer fight once again and see those triple left-hooks Louis landed on the GRANITE jaw of
Max Baer...Amazing fighter was the young Brown Bomber...
And the great Billy Conn , great as a young MW, and lightheavyweight who tackled
heavyweights as Lee Savold, Gunnar Barlund, Gus Dorazio with great success...Billy Conn was a fiery tough dude, whose beloved mother asked to be buried near her idol, the
great Pittsburgher Harry Greb...

 

I think that Louis was better when he fought Billy Conn than when he fought Max Baer.

That is how good Conn's showing was.

The only things he had, were that Louis underestimated him, and his form was becoming known.

 

I definitely think so, and it's not a theoretical in my book either. The man's name is Joe Frazier.

If a prime Ali beats him it's despite his style, not because of it. I don't think you have any stylistic advantage what-so-ever boxing Frazier in the classical style, by moving and jabbing.

Holmes should count himself lucky he never met Frazier in the ring.

 

Its a durability and defense question. It's a brilliant insight.

Louis was a terrific counter-puncher, from what I can see. He was terrific at countering outside assaults with triphammer shots.

Close up, he was very hittable, and his chin was far from iron.

Schmeling and Conn showed that if you stop moving around, plant your feet, and start blasting him at arms length, he's not hard to hit, and when hit enough or hit right, can be destabilized.

Its a subtle weakness in a fighter without many, and even then, this weakness didn't make Louis vulnerable. It just made the true route to giving yourself a prayer of beating him clear.

Look at the Marciano fight. Even an old Louis. Do you think that Marciano would have won doing anything resembling boxing? He tried in a couple rounds and lost them. Every time he just went in and swung, he beat the tar out of the old former champ.

Ezzard Charles boxed an aggressive fight when he dethroned him. Walcott did twice, losing because in one too many rounds, he played it cute.

 

He's wrong and if he was telling that to Conn in the corner, then he was part responsible for Conn getting knocked out. You also have to look at motivations, if he told his fight to mix it up and he got ko'd as a result, he's hardly going to say 'I was wrong', more likely 'I was right but my fighter just wasn't good enough to pull off the gameplan, it's not like I gave him stupid instructions on anything'.

Now if you're strong enough and a great in-fighter, backing up a puncher can provide dividends. That's 1 way to beat Louis, sticking and moving is just as valid depending on a fighters skill set. Schmelling and Walcott pretty much proved that as did Conn somewhat, despite him mixing it up.

 

I actually thought Louis was even better when he decided to "FIGHT."

MFer was fast, accurate, sharp, powerful, and could hit with combinations.

But Yes, go after Louis and see what happens:

Time: 2:20
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5zkE4BkMgg&t=2m20s[/ame]


.
Last fight Joe said he felt like his Old Self.
But yes, hit him hard, go after him, and see what happens.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_p7Dguyjbk[/ame]

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Joe decided.....The hell with boxing; I'm going to fight this Mfer

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BLGdFQPh8c[/ame]

 

Although...by the time he met the others, Joe could no longer defend himself when pressed to be a "Fighter" like he could when younger. So he focused on just "Boxing."
The "Fire" wasn't there either.

 

To see this Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight reinforces my belief that :
1- This edition of Louis with that left jab described by Jimmy Braddock as like an "electric bulb exploding in your face" would have beaten probably any heavyweight in history that night in 1935...FAST on his feet, powerful in build, and the greatest combination puncher since David slew Goliath.
2- Max Baer WAS TRYING, and took numerous combinations from Louis and remained on his feet. I believe Maxie had the best concrete chin for a heavyweight, for the simple reason no heavyweight in history had to face
a Joe Louis with his Gatling Gun blurring combinations who never again was as fast as that night in 1935.
3- This Joe Louis was so much faster and springier than the Joe Louis of the Billy Conn bout in 1941...I recall Louis and other boxing people had also expressed the same opinions...SPEED KILLS...

 

Once again I agree with Burt. The version of Louis that defeated Baer would've beaten Conn a lot sooner. Joe was faster then and in his deadly prime. He would've been too much for almost every HW champ before or after him. As close to perfect as you can get. His jab was incredible and he doubled it and tripled it and his combinations were awesome...and fast. Conn was a hell of a fighter but even he wouldn't last too long with that version of Louis.