Interesting wee article on Johnson-Kaufmann title fight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Oct 13, 2009.


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  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I doubt the accuracy of Johnson's given weights on boxrec OR the statements on his condition in this article.

    Considering how ripped he looked against Ketchel a few weeks later, he either had to shed "rolls of fat" or he wasn't really fat at all against Kauffman.
    At 209 it's unlikely that he's fat, then 5-6 weeks later be ripped and still 205. He's losing "rolls of fat" but maintaining his weight, I doubt it.
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 14, 2009
    Unforgiven, Oct 14, 2009
    #16
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Round 3 - "Kauffman started with the intention of winning or getting put away." He seems to have rushed Johnson who met him dead centre. Kauffman landed - a hard right to the body and a "weak" left to the jaw. Johnson "hooked" a right to the jaw and a left to the body, then deploys his right uppercut, the "close quarters uppercut...to the chin...twice more...behind each punch there seemed to be all the power the negro had in his body...Al did not drop, and though he was hurt, was able to last the round."

    This is describe as the action that set of the "fastest fight ever seen on the coast". It's interesting because it shows how Johnson deals with aggressive rushes, I think. It's clear Kauffman is really going for it. He does have limited success though, and again, it's downstairs.
     
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    #17
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Unforgiven, i'll get to the articles take on Johnson's condition soon.


    Round 4 - "...Kauffman had evidently been told that he had no chanc unless he roughed it and rough it he did. The round was one long hard fight...Johnson showed he is a past master at this type of milling...it was soon apparent that Kauffman's seconds had made a mistake advising this...from this round until the ninth there was little to the battle but Johnson. He landed where and when he pleased and in return was little harmed. Kauffman, like a game bloodied dog, fought his best, but his best was not good enough against...the fighting machine. [Johnson] was strong all the time and lived up to his biling as a long distance fighter of the highest order."

    Sloppy reporting probably, but I guess the story was always going to be rounds 9 and 10 for this reporter.
     
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    #18
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    E. D. Burrows,writing in the San Francisco Bulletin said Kaufman only hit Johnson with half a dozen serious punches during the fight,and that for every punch he landed he paid a dear price.He also said that Johnson did not open up on Kaufman and that he was overweight. Burrows stated Johnson won without even trying.

    By the way, Kaufman was Johnson's sparring partner for his fight with Willard.


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    Checkout Chris Eubanks great grandfather on the extreme right of the picture
     
    mcvey, Oct 14, 2009
    mcvey, Oct 14, 2009
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Round 9 - "In the ninth came the change that caused amazement...In the first minute [Kauffman] landed twice in the stomach blows that were so powerful that they took 50% of the fight out of the champion...for the first time in the fight Johnson lost his smile...[but] he still had his cleverness and fought along, giving Kauffman more than he recieved, but the sting was missing from his punches...Kauffman waded in and fought like a demon. Time and again he landed to the body recieving smashes to the jaw that should have stopped him...but he was not in the ring to be stopped."
     
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    #20
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Round 10 - "The final round was the best of the battle...Johnson would look as though he had Kauffman out then Kauffman would come back with a punch to the middleworks that would...have the champion looking worried. But the supreme skill of the black man was always there and in the end he was an easy winner."

    It seems to me that Janitor's perception is reasonable in that for stretches, it seems, Johnson held near total mastery over Kauffman. However, no two ways about it, based upon this article, Johnson had trouble in the final two. Having said that, so did Kauffman.

    I think it needs to be said that Johnson appears to have taken this man extraordinarily lightly based upon this.

    I'll dig up the details of Johnsons condition in this article a bit later, then look for a secondary.
     
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    #21
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Kaufman.
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    This content is protected
     
    mcvey, Oct 14, 2009
    mcvey, Oct 14, 2009
    #22
  8. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    SanFrancisco Call had a good report, pretty similar but gave Al credit for two good punches in the eight and a good rally in the last two rounds. The Call has a good round by round but it credits Kaufman with less than half a dozen punches.
     
    mattdonnellon, Oct 14, 2009
    mattdonnellon, Oct 14, 2009
    #23
  9. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I dont really see it that way. In those last two rounds:

    Round 9 - Kaufman landed two shots to the body, but Johnson fought on and gave more than he took. He also had Kaufman nearly out but Kaufman showed to much heart. Despite the two body shots, this definitely sounds like a round to Johnson.

    Round 10 - This was apparently the closest round of the fight. Johnson would look like he had Kaufman out on his feet but each time, Kaufman would land blows to save himself. At best, this might be a split round, but it sounds like Johnson won this round also, in fact probably quite comfortably.

    Either way, in a 10 round fight, Johnson won 9 rounds and in the 10th, which may have been drawn, he seems to have had his opponent out on his feet for most of the round. Possibly he did this while being badly out of shape and underestimating his opponent, who sounds like he was better than he is given credit for today. This performance could in no way be seen as anything but a spectacular win and enhancement to the legacy of Jack Johnson.
     
    Boilermaker, Oct 14, 2009
    Boilermaker, Oct 14, 2009
    #24
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well if you prefer, Johnson had his smile stripped from him in the final two and had his wind taken from him by a body attack.

    But i agree it is a great and dominant win for Johnson, and I see it 10-0.
     
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    #25
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    And you with the name of Boilermaker?.Mendoza will call you Judas:patsch
     
    mcvey, Oct 14, 2009
    mcvey, Oct 14, 2009
    #26
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Let the Johnson excuse train begin.

    He wasn't in the best of shape...
    He took Kaufmann lightly...
    It was Tuesday....
    Que Mcvey in 3-2-1...

    It appears a " white hope " who was Ko'd 5 times after this fight might have been turning the tides. While it is clear that Johnson was in the lead, the question beckons. What if this was a 15 or 20 round fight? Do we get a repeat of the Johnson vs. Hart fight when Johnson does little in the 2nd half of the fight.

    It is clear to me that Johnson didn't take the best body shots in the world. Hart bothered Johnson to the body. So did Kaufmann, and of course Willard.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 14, 2009
    Mendoza, Oct 14, 2009
    #27
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If these things are true, and reported as being true by the contemporary press they stop being excuses and start being reasons. What for? Dunno, it's just an interpretation of a reflection of reality, which is the best I can do for this fight.

    And you forgot the best part.

    Johnson won by distance. My read would be 10-0 or 9-1. It was a one-sided thrashing. With Johnson out of shape and and taking Kaufmann lightly.

    So what does he need an excuse for?
     
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 14, 2009
    #28
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Hate is a funny thing,it alters your perceptions of reality,and destroys any semblance of objectivity.Ultimately, it consumes you and makes you an object of ridicule.
    Mendoza loves to quote newpapers, or he does when he thinks they support his argument, however he is deaf dumb and blind to them when they do not .

    Johnson had over 90 fights,he was stopped 3 times before his 50th birthday and 4 times when an old man.The three fights he was stopped in anywhere near his prime were, once when he was 21 years old,once by Choynsky at the age of 23,and once by Willard after 26 rounds when he was 37.
    According to Mendoza ,Johnson had a weak chin and a weak resistance to body shots, Mendoza also stated in the past that Johnson's defence was way overated,so we must be missing something here,perhaps none of the other fighters Johnson fought had any kind of a punch?

    "Turning the tide" :rofl A man out of shape pitches a near shut out ,the other fighter lands a couple of punches and he is turning the tide,or in Mendoza's case" turning the tides". Must have been Canute Kaufman.:good
     
    mcvey, Oct 15, 2009
    mcvey, Oct 15, 2009
    #29
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If it was a 15 rd or 20 rd fight, do you think it possible Johnson might have got himself in better shape?
    Let us say ,for the sake of argument ,you are right and everyone else is wrong [ a not uncommon occurence], that Johnson was in the best shape of his life.The consensus is still that he won at least 9 of the 10 rds, so ,how was Kaufman "turning the tide"?
     
    mcvey, Oct 15, 2009
    mcvey, Oct 15, 2009
    #30
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