Interesting wee article on Johnson-Kaufmann title fight

I dunno. Wasn't Johnson in shape for the Hart and Griffin fights, which were 20 and 15 rounds fights? He faded in these matches. Hart landed some good body shots, which turned the fight his way in the 12th round.

Box rec reports 209 for Johnson, which isn't that heavy for him.

It seems like Kaufman had some success to the body too, and it clearly bothered Johnson. I know your man love for Johnson prevents you from objective reason, but unless you can produce print or film that says otherwise there is a clear evidence that Johnson didn't take the best body shot in the world. It only took a few body blows from Kaufman to make things interesting in round 9 and 10.

 

I think Johnson was in shape for the Hart, Griffin fights ,has anyone said to the contrary?
Box rec reports Tommy Burns as being 168lbs for Jem Roche immediately prior to meeting Jack Johnson ,where he scaled the same 168lbs ,and you said he was underweight, AND SUFFERING FROM YELLOW FEVER,WHICH IS RUBBISH ,HE WAS JUST OVER A BOUT OF INFLUENZA.
Reports on the Hart fight are very mixed, Alex Creggains said he gave the fight to Hart, based on his aggressiveness,other witnesses thought Johnson shaded it.I have no love for Johnson ,Dempsey is my heavyweight then Ali..You have produced no proof that Johnson was anymore vulnerable to body shots than anyone else.
EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD HAS SAID JOHNSON WON IN A VIRTUAL SHUTOUT.EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU,who claims Kaufman was" turning the tide, and making things interesting".What you are afflicted with is "Man Hate",more particularly" Johnson hate".Your man love is reserved for Jim Jeffries and the Klitschko's, as everyone knows.
Take a look at yourself.

 

Johnson schooled Kauffman.

But just about every fight he had is a blemish on his record, according to Dr Z.

 

That must have been just before the "tide started to turn!"

 

One wonders how he ever won over 70 fights, given that according to Dr Mendoza,he was chinny ,couldn't take body shots ,and his defence was overated? Every one else must have been real crap

 

Johnson must have been an infuriating fighter to watch at times,often out of shape and content to do just enough to get by,I can quite understand how many think he is overated.
I suppose he is one fighter who will forever divide boxing aficionados as to his proper worth.I just get tired of hearing the same old song from the Dr .atsch

 

Hey, I'm a Wlad fan. He has had 56 fights to date and has only been stopped three times. Do I think he has a suspect chin vs punchers? Absolutely! See how easy it is to be honest.

Similarly, Johnson according to Box rec had 57 fights after he meet Willard was was stopped three times. Does Johnson also have a suspect chin vs. Punchers. I think so. Johnson was KTFO by a super middle, floored by a middle, and seemed to have real issues with body shots.

 

You stupid buffon. Re-read what I wrote. I said it was clear that Johnson was in the lead, but according to the reports the final two rounds were close.

Why only have 10 round title fights? If this fight was 12, 15, or more there is debate as to what might have happened. that was my point.

Keep jacking off to Johnson, and trying to play your race cards. You don't fool me.

 

I think we can see glaring differences here,I will try and show them.

Johnson was tkod by Klondike Haines when he was 21.
He was kod by Joe Choynsky ,whom he,Jeffries,and Corbett named as the hardest puncher they ever met, he was 23 ,and still maturing physically,meeting a vastly more experienced fighter.
Johnson was next kod at the age of 37 after 26 rds.
That's three times,twice before he was prime and once well after his prime had gone.

Wlad was kod by Ross Puritty,who had lost 13 of his 38 fights,it was for the WBC International Title,Wlad was ranked in the top 10,and had, had 24 fights.
Wlad was next kod by Corrie Sanders while defending his WBO Title he had engaged in 41 fights.
Wlad was again kod ,by Lamon Brewster for the vacant WBO title he was a veteran of 51 fights. and was 27 years old.

Johnson was NEVER KOD IN HIS PRIME.
Wlad has been kod THREE TIMES IN HIS PRIME.

Johnson,after losing his title resumed his career ,he had another 27 fights, he is stopped or retires in 4 of them,the first when he is 48 years old.
He is next stopped by Bearcat Wright a fringe contender,Johnson is 50 years old and has been out of the ring for 2 years.
That same year he retires in a fight claiming a broken hand.
He finally is stopped in 1938 ,he was 60 years old .
I don't see how Johnson's chin is so suspect,given the stats.
Neither have you offered any thing to support your theory that Johnson could not take body shots .
Sam Mcvey ,for example never
hurt him to the body ,and he was a noted body puncher,like wise Langford.
I don't say Johnson had a chin on a par with Ali , for example, but it was surely adequate.Likewise his ability to take body shots.

 

Why only have 10 rd title fights?
Why not? The distance is the same for both fighters ,isn't it?
Champion Jim Jeffries fought Tom Kennedy over 4rds.
And defended his title over 4 rds against Jack Finnegan,or ,is that different because it was Jeffries?

Given that the consensus is that Johnson won at least 9 of the 10rds,what difference would it have made if the fight had gone 12 or 15 rds? I suppose you think Johnson's chin and body would have let him down?
Like it did when Willard kod him after 26 rds after being behind for the first 20 rds, with Johnson being 37 years old.
You don't so much as" clutch at straws",you pluck them from thin air.:-((


I might not "fool you " , but ,you "fool me".:huh
That's twice you have called me a racist,on what do you base this?

 

Jack Johnson had short 6 and 10 round title matches vs smaller guys, and in many cases less skilled guys. I don't care if he beat a teenager in Sam Mcvey, a 156 pound Langford, or a .500 an in-experienced fighter in Jeanette. We have been over this before. How can one's chin be tested vs men so green, or small???? When you have the height, reach, and experience, these should be easy fights. And for the most part, they were.

Yet, when Johnson meet guys near his size, or with equal experience, he struggled ( Choynsi, Klondike, Hart, Griffin )...and that is the truth!

Wlad never ran from the best punchers. Men like Peter, Sanders, Brewster, Chagaev, and Ibragimov hit a lot harder than jokers like Flynn, Ross, or middle's like O'brien, or Ketchel. The only legit puncher Johnson met as Champion who was not too small or way over the hill was Willard, and he KO'd him. As I said before Johnson had a safety first style ( guys with suspect chins vs. punchers fight this way ). He never meet mature versions punchers in Langford or Mcvey. He never meet Gunboat Smith in an official fight, though we both know Smith floored Johnson and had him badly dazed in a 4 round exhibition match to the point where Johnson's manager had to cut the last Rodin short...becasue his man was dazed.

By the way Wlad was 22 when he lost for mainly stamina related reasons to Purrity, and as I told you before Johnson had 25+ recorded fights, and lots of battle royals under his belt before meeting Choynski.
After the Willard fight, Johnson fought droves of journeyman. An experienced top level fighter chin is seldom tested in these type of matches.

The best way to judge a good chin is not the total amount of fights, rather what happens when someone who can punch hits it. We saw that in the Choynski, Klondike, and Willard fights. We also saw that in the 4 round exhibition match vs Gunboat Smith. If you clinch all day, and play it safe vs smaller fighters, or less than skilled guys and have some defense, you not getting many chin checking shots.

As for body shots, it seems like Kaufman when he landed there had some effect. Hart clearly had some effect. Willard really hurt Johnson to the body, and I suspect you have not seen those filmed rounds. I forget how Jeanette hurt Johnson in the DQ win. I do know Jeanette hurt Johnson ( could have been a body shot ) in round one. Johnson went low in round two, and was DQ....but kept the colored title despite losing on a foul. Even an old Jeffries hurt Johnson to the body according to the unforgivable blackness newspaper reviews, but was too tired and slow to follow up.

In closing, how can heavyweight who was KO'd by a supper middle, and knocked down and dazed on flim vs. a middle have a good chin?

 

I am sorry your post has too many spelling and typo errors in it to make much sense out of it.RODIN?
I will try and answer points that are understandable.
Johnson ,never met mature /or experienced punchers ?
Choynsky had 61 fights when he met Johnson.
Griffin kod 24 foes in 28 wins.
Childs kod 24 out of 41.
Frank Moran was 27 years old when he met the 36 year old Johnson who was 221lbs[ overweight again].Did Moran put Johnson down at any time either from a body punch ,or a head shot?
Moran was known as a hard puncher,with his " Mary Ann " right hand.
The" supper" middle weight was know as the hardest puncher of his times.And has the testimony of three heavyweight Champions to back that up.
After the knockdown by Ketchel ,Johnson got up and with his next punch knocked Ketchel completely unconscious, he could not have been in bad shape I think.
If you agree let us leave this here ,as the thread is NOT about Johnson's durability but about his fight with Kaufmann, which whatever way you slice it was an overwhelming victory for Johnson,the referee giving him. ALL 10 ROUNDS.
No comment about my racism,or Burns, scaling, the same 168lbs for his previous fight?:thumbsup