Iron Mike Tyson vs Terrible Tim Witherspoon, Prime For Prime

Bruno also tested Lennox Lewis, so it's not out of the question that we would have saw the same thing, regardless of the shape Witherspoon was in.

 

So he was in poor shape for Bruno, poor shape for Smith. Basically any time he lost it was down to being in poor shape.

Come on, William. Can you not see what you're saying here?

Okay. Have it your way. I say Tim turns up in crap shape - as per - and Tyson kicks the sh1t out of him in two. And, unlike the posts who claim Tim was all wrong for Tyson, the evidence strongly supports me saying what I am saying. I'm basing my prediction on what consistently happened.

I'm not hypothesising on a 'maybe if all the stars had been aligned' but as they never actually were in the real world over a protracted period of time. Tim was on a par with Tubbs and Thomas. He needed 24 rounds to split a pair of decisions with them. Tyson took both out in dominant fashion over a total of eight.

Different levels in the real world.

 

Great post.

Tim sometimes gets a little overstated for mine tho he was certainly a very good fighter. It's commonly stated his best ever shape and performance was against Holmes and it's as if he never fought at that level again or was ever in that sort of shape again. The truth is he was in great shape against Thomas 15 months later and was simply beaten on his merits and beaten comfortably. He went close to nullifying the Holmes jab yet Thomas controlled virtually the entire fight with his jab and scaled back the last few rounds as he was way ahead. Witherspoon stayed determined and tried hard to land something big as the fight went on but he just couldn't find a way into the fight. He didn't tire or gas he simply got beaten by a better man.

The Thomas win is fobbed off as Witherspoon wasn't in the shape he was for Holmes, Witherspoon was never as good as he was against Holmes etc etc etc. For many it's a defense for Thomas doing a better job on him than Larry did. Holmes doesn't need any excuses as it's accepted he was on the decline. He'd lost a step, he'd lost a bit of timing, he'd lost a bit of snap in the jab. No-one is saying it was peak Holmes. Sure he could still fight and could still beat almost if not every heavyweight out there but we know he'd slipped a little. By the time Smith, Bey and Williams came around it was evident he'd slipped more again and Spinks certainly sowed that.

On their best nights Tim would beat most of them but at the very least Thomas showed he certainly wouldn't be among that lot. Tyson was on a different level for two or three years.

 

True, good point. Although that's more of a compliment to Spoon, that he won the fight based his ability to survive and throw powerful punches despite being in poor shape.

 

Man, you're saying that I'm wrong because I believe facts. If you watch previous Spoon fights you will see that Spoon clearly could be in much better shape. That doesn't mean he does much better, or better at all, but I at least only entertain peak vs. peak when it comes to fantasy fights unless specified otherwise.

Let's put it this way, how does Tyson of the Buster Douglas fight do vs. Spoon of the Tillis fight?

 

Could go either way but I'm favouring Tyson TKO11

 

I was a big fan of Witherspoon as a fighter he had it all...but this is a bad style matchup TW can fight anywhere the fight goes but he doesnt have the type of style to beat him because he isnt a mover and he was fast just not fast enough for Tyson...what I mean is his best style was to walk opponents down and when he set to fight he liked to lean in though off centerline sort of a 6'3" Frazier style and that is a poor style matchup for Tyson.

 

Not quite as well as the Tyson of the Berbick fight does against the Spoon of the Bruno, Tubbs, Smith fights, that's for sure.

You're picking one fight where Tyson looked bad. You've given me two where Tim looked bad. I could throw in the Tubbs match too. It wasn't a one-off for Tim not being in shape, it was an established pattern.

Take out the Tokyo debacle - and Tyson looked devastating either side of that - and Tyson looked good from 86-91. What fights in that period did Tim have that make you think he could pull off what his peers - Tubbs, Thomas, Smith - had all failed to achieve? And not just failed but got themselves comprehensively beaten?

Common opponents. Tyson looked formidable. Tim looked fat. Those are facts. If you're pitting absolute 'peak vs peak' you're picking the force of nature Tyson was against Berbick or Thomas, Biggs or Spinks. What was Tim's peak performance that would cope with that? His loss to an ageing Larry Holmes, coming from behind to beat Bruno (who Tyson obliterated in this time period), the struggle with the equally fleshy and out of shape Tubbs (who Tyson obliterated in this time period) or the losses to Smith or Thomas (who Tyson obliterated in this time period)?

In a fantasy match up, look at more than one fighter's best ever performance against someone else's worse. Take a selection of fights and pick a median showing. On average, I think you'll find, Tyson's form whenever this match might conceivably have been made far outshone Tim's. Base your pick on that - facts, if you like - rather than the vague hope that Tim might have got his head together and got in shape when, in the real world, that didn't happen.

 

The Tim who fought Holmes would have been Mike's toughest opponent in the 80s imo. I think Tim would have both rocked Mike and been rocked himself, but though he would be better than anyone else Mike faced 87-89 he'd lose an entertaining but decisive UD.

 

Give me the Spoon that fought Holmes by UD

 

@Tim Witherspoon

 

He really was an excellent fighter during that fight.

 

They worked out the way Don King wanted.

If King wanted the fight, it would have happen before or after 1987.

 

It turns out, that there were other ways of drawing the color bar!

 

Prime for prime i would lean towards Tyson, Witherspoon loved to fight in the trenches & open up but that would prove disastrous with a peak Tyson & i think he would go into a shell & lose on points, similar to the Tucker fight.