Is Abel Sanchez a better trainer than Freddie Roach?

I mean, I was a little kid when he was calling plays in Chicago. The point in time when I was really watching (and comprehending) basketball is when he was in LA. But he already had a reputation by then for cherry-picking teams so chock full of talent you'd have to almost try your hardest to miss the playoffs by way of active sabotage.

I've read the debates from old-timer hoops fans, going blue in the face on both sides as to whether Jordan owed Jackson (and if so how much) or vice-versa. Much the same as the debates of a similar nature between Kobe & Shaq, it'll probably continue to be debated for generations.

All I do know is, the Bulls and Lakers teams he coached were both pretty much built to win, no matter what. Did he serve an instrumental role in guiding them, wrangling all those egos together and keeping them from going off the rails and imploding? Maybe.

We do know that Golovkin and Gassiev were both good fighters but NOTHING like they are now, before they reached The Summit.

We also know that a guy like Virgil Hunter shows ZERO track record of ever improving a single fighter. He rode Andre Ward's coattails to fame, and then when left to his own devices couldn't reproduce good results. Analysis: fraud.

 

But Virgil Hill said that Khan would knock El Pollo out! Roach studied with one of the best trainers ever, Eddie Futch, I really liked Futch, Bowe would never have become champion if not for Futch..................but I do think Abel Sanchez is a great trainer, yes, better than Roach, another trainer is Papa Lomachenko, he knows what he is doing................saw him in Usyk's corner...............

 

Roach studied with Futch, doesn't make him Futch.

Atlas studied with D'Amato... Atlas is NO D'Amato.

That said, Roach isn't just living off his teacher's name. He's a damn good coach in his own right. He just has never been as responsible for a fighter's greatness, IMO, as El Mustachio is for shaping & forging the wrought steel of both GGG and Iron G now.

 

He needs another about 7 or so BWAA Trainer of the Year Awards... (although I wasn't so into him getting some of those, still)

 

Well, if Gassiev manages to grab the WBSS crown, expect those awards to keep piling up...

That's his real cash-cow now. Golovkin has an expiry date in the not too distant future.

 

Roach is above average, he used to be a pretty good boxer as well, but never had power. He is up there at the top, but Abel is impressing me a lot, so is Papa Lomachenko.................I was in Bowe's camp years ago, Slime Jim Robertson, Big Foot Martin, Rock Newman, never did like him, Bowe was OK, but Eddie Futch was not only a great trainer, he was very good person, he made Bowe work hard, Bowe was lazy, Eddie got angry with Bowe over the Golota fights, was not in his corner in the second one............damn, I was in New York when the riot broke out at MSG, Lou Duva passed out, had to take him out with a stretcher, Duva had heart problems, fans throwing stuff, it was a mess. Golota would have knocked Bowe out without the low blows, they were not really intentional, Golota had a mental problem.................Golota needed Tony Weeks in those fights. Duva had a heavy bag, with a belt/tape on it at the belt line, did everything, but Golota did it again.....................it's a shame................of course Tony Weeks would have saved him from disqualification like he did SOB................that was a long time ago..............Teddy Atlas knows boxing, he lived with Cus, Tyson, Kevin Rooney, etc., but Teddy was never any good as a trainer, he made Michael Grant worse. Kirk Johnson was Teddy's pet, but Vitali knocked him out in the second round, although Kirk was a good fighter with potential, just lazy. Kevin Rooney did a great job of training Tyson after Cus died, Cus wanted Kevin to train him, not Teddy..............he knew Tyson's style, but Kevin hit the bottle too much, still, after Jimmy Jacobs died, Tyson did not trust anyone, Don King destroyed Tyson's career, lied about Bill Cayton, who was honest, it was King who cheated the hell out of Tyson...............whatever, Eddie Futch, I will never forget him, he was one of the best in history. I agree that Roach was lucky to have had Pac, a naturally good fighter, but what has Roach done for us lately?

 

Thank you!!!

I don't think he did Povetkin any favors, either.

 

Yes, I agree with you about Povetkin, Teddy did not seem to do him much good, but was given credit by TV, too much. Povetkin did not look good in the Huck fight because he did not train for that fight, ran out of gas, not because of Povetkin's ability. I hope Povetkin can win a real title before retiring, he does not have much time left...................there are so many new heavyweights coming up from Eastern Europe, they have tons of potential, we will be seeing them in the fairly near future, I hope................

 

Im no boxing historian but I liked Steward and Nacho better. They took boxers and changed them or started them from 0. Roach seems to get fighters who are already on top. Look at Pac once he faced JMM again for the third fight it showed that he was still a lot like the younger version of himself. It seems like Roach was the only one to exploit Khans full potential though.

 

That's not really a one liner.

 

Able is very smart in choosing the fighters to recruit to his stable.

He's takes on Eastern Europeans with vast amateur experience, blue chip fundamentals, proven track records and then places them in "his school" which is a solid environment where they learn from one another and spar against good SoCal professional talent that he brings up the mountain for sparring.

He molds them into fan friendly professional fighters, but does so by building off their current foundation. They are offensive minded, attack on angles, solid footwork, work behind a hard jab....and, ultimately, always look to finish with the knockout that the people want. It's a reoccurring theme.

 

What is it then ?? Its a quote from the King of one liners

 

It never occurred to me to ask who needed the other more, Jackson or Jordan, but I can tell you without question it was Jackson that turned that team around, not Jordan. With Jordan they were stuck in a rut and easily exploited by the “Jordan Rules”, which was Detroit’s strategy for beating Bulls. Just focus on Jordan. 4 on 1, it didn’t matter. The rest of the team wasn’t going to do anything.

A good coach understands the strenghs and weaknesses of his players, and uses them accordingly. Jackson brought the Red Holtzman way of playing to the Bulls, brought in role players, made the right trades, had a very good coaching staff, established the triangle offense, saw the value of having three point shooters. Hell, he may have even given the Bulls that song. You cannot overstate what he did in Chicago.

If you ever get a chance to watch the Knicks’ championship winning game of the 1973 season, against the Lakers, which I believe is on YouTube, you will see how much the Bulls looked like Red Holtzman’s 1973 Knicks. It was also Chamberlain’s last game. And both Phil Jackson and Pat Riley played in it off the bench. 15 Hall of Fame players, coaches and referees were on the floor that night. Such a great game.

 

More of an assertion or statement of fact really. It's quotable but I wouldn't consider it a quip.

 

Both talk real tough that's for sure