Is Age 23 "Green" for a fighter?

It depends how many fights they have so just focusing on age is stupid. Canelo was a very experienced 23 year old fighter, so he was not green. Some fighters might have 5 fights at age 23 so they would be green. Canelo fan boys like to think Canelo was green as a cope for how easily Floyd schooled him.

 

I don't think Canelo is that much better. Bigger yes. Like I said, he still struggles mightily against guys with an educated jab and good footwork. But, I get your point about this version of Canelo. The biggest version of Floyd beat the smallest version of Canelo. That being said,Canelo was not green.

 

23 isn't green! It's the experience what decides how green you are. Fanboys of Canelo only say he was green because Mayweather schooled him and made it look easy. Many fighters looked out of Mayweather class when they fought him. Canelo was not green with 40 plus fights under his belt!

 

Please, rated number 9 p4p just for beating Austin Trout? We both know the Ring Magazine was bought by Golden Boy at the time recently and Canelo was Golden Boys biggest fighter, you put the two together. I specifically remember people on ESB complaining about the very same thing. Besides Austin Trout in which the decision was controversial he beat 0, I repeat 0 top 10 rated JMW fighters.

Yeah, he beat DLH in 2007 meaning he fought at 154 before Canelo did who was still a Welterweight at the time which means Floyd already had world level experience at that weight class compared to Canelo who was fighting shot welterweights and gatekeepers moving up to 154 until fighting Trout.

Floyd by that time had like 20 plus championship level fights and beat numerous ranked contenders. Canelo had only barely beaten one ranked contender in Austin Trout before beating Floyd. 140 pound Josesito Lopez, 147 pound gatekeeper Matthew Hatton, British level Ryan Rhodes, shot 147 pounder gatekeeper Alfonso Gomez, shot 147 pounder Leap Frog Cintron and extremely shot former Lightweight champ and recently divorced Mosley is who he fought before Trout. That makes Wilders title competition look like Ray Robinsons in comparison.

He had already adapted his style for his "bwitte" little hands and was injecting heavy amounts of drugs into them anyway so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Floyd's hands didn't bother him for the rest of his career, he was doping heavily with that **** which is illegal anywhere in the world besides Vegas. Sugar Ray Leonard even hinted about Floyds daddy's brittle hands and said Floyd had the same thing which is why he couldn't beat him in a fantasy match up.

Bigger man how though? Mayweather weight drained Canelo and was slightly taller with the longer reach. How exactly was Canelo the bigger man at that particular point in time? Are you really complaining about A side judging compared to someone like Floyd?

Canelo weighed 153 and a half pounds vs Austin Trout, that's completely different from a pound. Canelo was struggling making the 154 limit and he had to drain another 2 pounds because Floyd wanted an unfair advantage. Canelo literally didn't fight at 154 again after the Floyd fight creating the whole 155 pound "Canelo weight" in the process. Notice that 1 pound made a difference for Canelo, he even tried going down 1 pound vs Liam Smith to pick up a WBO title and looked completely different and lacked stamina compared to his fights at 155 and that was only a 1 pound difference. Now again, adding 2 pounds to the equation at 152 meant Canelo had to focus on just making weight besides training and was extremely sluggish come fight time which showed. It looked like he was stuck in quick sand.

Nobody is arguing Mayweather is overall the greater boxer to Canelo. Most people are simply stating that win is pretty overrated and Floyd had to weight drain Canelo which tainted the win.

 

Baby Jake Matlala, I found out, years later, not even a real baby.

 

Archie Moore's nickname was literally the Old Mongoose. He was still a world level fighter at the time, he was literally the LHW champion of the world during the 1 belt era and rated in the top 10 at HW before fighting Ali. Mosley wasn't ranked anywhere and was shot, broke and just fighting for a paycheck. Ali's win over Moore is greater without question.

Ali beat 3 top 10 contenders and was an Olympic Gold Medalist with the best trainers and cornermen in the world. Infact in 1961 when Ali only had 4 fights he sparred the number 1 rated contender Ingemar Johansson and absolutely clowned him which made Johansson petrified at a future potential match up.


Besides Trout, you've seen Canelo's competition before fighting Floyd. It was absolutely abysmal. Clay had over 100 amateur fights including Gold and 3 ranked contenders under his belt as well as a world class corner. His potential was obvious since his pro debut, Canelo was just some ginger guy who was popular with Mexicans due to his appearance, he had done almost nothing before fighting Floyd but surpassed expectations around the time he beat Cotto when he started finally hitting his stride.

 

He wasn't a real Jake either.

 

The problem with that fight wasn't how green Canelo was, it was the nonsense catchweight. Every catchweight fight has an asterix next to it in my eyes, just feels like a step towards an exhibition.

 

The fact is Canelo was P4P rated number 9 just because it doesn't fit with your narrative is irrelevant, he was P4P number 9 and the number 1 rated Jr Middleweight with over a dozen world title fights and held two of the belts.

As for Trout he had a very good win over Cotto, and was the number 3 rated Jr Middleweight only below Mayweather, Canelo, so yes it was a good win for Canelo.

As for Canelo not beating any other top rated Jr Middleweights he beat Rhodes who was ranked 4th. And beat recognizable names like Cintron, Mosley, and had other decent wins against Lopez, Baldomir.

The fact is after Canelo lost to Mayweather he destroyed the likes of Angulo, Kirkland, and looked very impressive in doing so. Which means it's more of a stylistic issue that Canelo didn't look impressive vs Mayweather.

1 fight 6 years ago in which he weighed 150 pounds and he never actually technically made the Jr Middleweight limit, which means he was a small guy as i alluded to before and never had any real notable power even at Welterweight.

No one is saying Canelo fought a murderer's row of opponents, but again he still had championship experience and fought some recognizable names. The thing is Mayweather was always going to have more experience than Canelo so i don't really understand your point ? how could Canelo be anymore prepared for Mayweather at Jr Middleweight ? as i said earlier after losing to Mayweather he looked impressive vs a certain style of opponent but was the likes of Kirkland, Angulo, going to prepare him for Mayweather ? and would it of altered the outcome of the fight ? absolutely not. Again as i said it was a stylistic issue which is why Canelo didn't look good vs Mayweather just like he didn't look good vs Lara either who was a slick fighter like Mayweather.

Again your missing the point i'm saying he didn't have power when he moved up to Welterweight, so his power at Jr Middleweight would be even less of a factor. So he had to beat Canelo on his skills and experience, and clearly Mayweather is on a different level to Canelo regarding skills.

"Alvarez rehydrated to 165 on fight night while Mayweather lost a half-pound from the weigh-in. But that added bulk made no difference, as Mayweather was his typically elusive self."

So that pretty much destroys your theory doesn't it ? Canelo had a 1 stone advantage over Mayweather on fight night.

As for Mayweather having A side judging ? he's only had 1 controversial decision in his career vs Castillo who he beat comfortably in the rematch.

Where as Canelo has had 4 very controversial decisions go his way vs Golovkin 1 and 2, Trout, Lara, and has had some very head scratching scorecards vs the likes of Bivol 115-113 x3, Mayweather 114-114, Golovkin 1 118-110, and so on.

But again as i just proved to you Canelo only weighed 1 pound less than he did vs Trout in his previous fight and then rehydrated to 165 pounds. Everyone has excuses for Canelo but yet Mayweather was older, smaller, and fighting above his best weightclass.

 

What? Oscar De La Hoya literally owned the Ring Magazine and Canelo was Golden Boy's biggest fighter, Canelo was only ranked number 9 on the ring, ESPN, Boxrec or even ESB's rankings didn't have him anywhere close to top 10 how is that part of a narrative? This is literally a fact, you need to stop gobbling Floyd's nuts, guy doesn't care about or even know you. He had 1 belt, Trout was the WBA regular champion, Floyd still held the real WBA belt when he had beaten Cotto that's why Floyd vs Canelo was for the true WBA and WBC belts.

Nobody is saying it wasn't a good win, it's the fact that it was Canelo's only ranked opponent in 41 fights and he struggled, got outboxed and only won due to the knockdown he scored

These are the 2011 154 top 10 rankings.

1. Miguel Angel Cotto
2. Saul Alvarez
3. Vanes Martirosyan
4. Erislandy Lara
5. Carlos Molina
6. James Kirkland
7. Alfredo Angulo
8. Cornelius Bundrage
9. Serhiy Dzinziruk
10. Delvin Rodriguez

these are the 2012 top 10 rankings

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Saul Alvarez
3. Austin Trout
4. Miguel Cotto
5. Erislandy Lara
6. Vanes Martirosyan
7. Carlos Molina
8. James Kirkland
9. Cornelius Bundrage
10. Zaurbek Baysangurov

Canelo didn't fight any of them before the Floyd bout besides Trout.

Stop it man, he beat shot, unranked Welterweights and gatekeepers moving up. My mans really listing shot Kermit Cintron, shot, old former 135 pounder Mosley in a losing streak fighting for money, gatekeeper 140 pounder Josesito Lopez and shot 147 pounder featherfisted pedophile Carlos Baldomir also in a losing streak. I'm truly impressed man.

Ya Canelo looked good after Mayweather because he didn't have to drain himself to make weight anywhere, the man could barely make 154 pounds and Mayweather had to drain him badly which is why Alvarez fought at 155 for a number of years despite looking like a clown doing so. He outgrew 154 but wasn't comfortable fighting at the full 160 limit yet.

He fought ranked Jr Middleweights BEFORE the Canelo fight, that's the point. Floyd already had experience fighting men at the 154 pound weight class while Canelo besides Trout was fighting midgets and hasbeens moving up. You can't cry being the smaller man when you won 2 belts at a weight class, the number 1 rated fighter there and weight draining your opponent for an unfair advantage. Doesn't make any sense.

Please, he was gifted the WBC belt at 154 vs unranked competition, Matthew Hatton, Ryan Rhodes, Alfonso Gomez, shot Kermit Cintron, shot Mosley and 140 pound gate keeper Josesito Lopez is laughable competition, the fact that you're even bringing up these names to try and prove a point is laughable, borderline trolling.

You keep mentioning Floyd's power again which is extremely irrelevant, I can't recall any fight in which Floyd had a power advantage over his opponent. Floyd is a boxer, the man barely had any power to begin with, after using drugs to numb his hands before every fight, he never had hand problems for the rest of his career. He couldn't put a dent on glass jawed shot Andre Berto at 147, I'm really not sure why you keep bringing it up. Mayweather had more speed, better punch placement, more stamina, longer reach, was fully rehydrated and comfortable making weight, better ring IQ and a high level of top level fighting experience. Canelo just had power and youth, his size was negated by Floyd weight draining him.


Rehydrating AFTER the weigh in is pointless if you've spent your entire training camp trying to make weight, look what happened to Daniel Geale vs Miguel Cotto, Cotto forced him to fight at a catchweight, when fight time came Geale rehydrated close to a Cruiserweight but it didn't do him any good, was extremely slow, sluggish and got knocked out.


Bro, I understand you're a Mayweather dick sucker, but WTF are you talking about? 117-111 in the first Maidana fight, 118-110 vs Miguel Cotto, 116-112 vs DLH, his 116-111 score in the first Castillo fight and lets not forget Floyd's best buddies and own personal referees Joe Cortez and Skip Bayless who were more than willing to give him a helping hand in numerous fights. Did I mention Floyd had USADA in his back pocket too, IV scandal is literally a thing.

 

You're joking, right?

Don't let Clenelo's height fool you. He's built like a goddamn tank and is probably 180+ on fight night. Super Middleweights can barely move him and they can't take too many of his punches. Golovkin with his ATG chin was also very weary of Clenelo's power. Floyd stood right in front of Clenelo and even walked his ass down at times.

In the Floyd fight, Clenelo's face was falling apart and he was gassing badly. If Floyd had really pressed him, he might have actually stopped him. That's how frail and compromised Clenelo was (just like Spence).

160-168 Clenelo would literally walk through Floyd's punches and blast him out of there.

 

Canelo was a 23-year-old phenom and the world champion at 154. Mayweather was a 36-year-old veteran welterweight moving up.

When does that normally turn out for the older guy?

Everyone tuned in to watch the changing of the guard. It was the biggest selling PPV fight in history to that point.

The fact that people still make excuses for Canelo's performance is comical.

Canelo wasn't green. He was fighting a 36-year-old moving up.

Floyd fought Canelo, Cotto and Oscar in one-off fights at 154, and Floyd only weighed 150 for two fights and 151 (against Cotto). They all had weight advantages over him when the bell rang. (And both Canelo and Cotto were younger.)

If Floyd came out of retirement today and won a boring 12-round decision over Alvarez, people would accuse Floyd of waiting for Canelo "to get old."

36-year-old Floyd beat Canelo straight up. No excuses. In fact, the only "bad" score was the one giving Canelo a draw.

 

Aww. It looks like I made you very upset. You should take a step back to remind yourself that this is an internet forum...

Remember when you got sooooooooooo hurt and angry and upset that you started talking about my non-existent children?

That's not healthy.

Floyd doesn't know who you are and he doesn't care about you.

 

I typed a whole reply to this but for some reason the site signed me out so my whole reply got deleted.

So i'm just going to do a quick 5 minute reply because i'm bored now.

Canelo P4P rated number 9
Canelo 7-0 in world title fights
Canelo ranked number 1 Jr Middleweight

Everything else you say is irrelevant those are the facts.

Trout beat Cotto more convincingly than Mayweather did, he was 26-0 and rated number 3 Jr Middleweight of course it's a good win.

I'll quote this here again.

"Alvarez rehydrated to 165 on fight night while Mayweather lost a half-pound from the weigh-in. But that added bulk made no difference, as Mayweather was his typically elusive self."

Canelo weighed 1 pound less vs Trout prior to his fight with Mayweather, if he'd outgrown the division then that's on him just more excuses.

People need to be more consistent if Canelo is allowed all these excuses then mention Mayweather was older, smaller, and fighting above his best weightclass.

As for me being Mayweather fan boy that's a false statement, i don't even like Mayweather but i can be impartial in regards to a certain fighter whether i like him or not. All your doing is trying to spin a narrative based on theories and suggestions and trying make me look like a Mayweather fan boy not going to work.

Everything i've stated is a fact in regards to the rankings and Canelo's/Mayweather's careers.

Finally Mayweather has only benefitted from one controversial decision aka Castillo 1, Canelo has had the benefit of the doubt in 4 of his controversial decisions. And had outrageous scorecards in fights he was thoroughly dominated in aka Mayweather, Bivol, big difference.

Canelo was the same fighter after losing to Mayweather vs Kirkland, Angulo, Lara, beating 1 or 2 more ranked fighters wouldn't of made a difference to the outcome. Most people consider Canelo's best weight to be Super Middleweight, but that's irrelevant in regards to how Canelo fares at Jr Middleweight vs Mayweather. Because Mayweather could never make Super Middleweight division.

As i said what we do know is that a good version of Canelo who was pre prime, lost very convincingly to a past his prime Mayweather who was fighting above his best weightclass. Hence Mayweather is a far superior fighter P4P to Canelo.

And that's my last reply i'm bored of this topic now.

 

Stop with the word play. Lol

Just keep it simple, lets not do mental gymnastics here. Its either green or not. Which clearly he isn't.