Is Age 23 "Green" for a fighter?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by steviebruno, Oct 8, 2023.


Page 9 of 18
  1. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    But Floyd didn't fight the best version of Clenelo, did he?

    A simple yes or no will suffice.
     
    JOKER, Oct 9, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 9, 2023
    #121
  2. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

    3,967
    1,061
    Dec 1, 2012
    "Not prime" does not equal "green".

    Floyd was 36 and barely good enough to handle Maidana by then, but you will pretend that Floyd himself was in his prime.

    There is no evidence that "prime Canelo" can "brutally ko" a fighter who has never lost, never been seriously dropped, and took ten rounds off of him when they actually did fight. You can keep repeating it, but that doesn't make it true.

    Floyd Mayweather isn't Amir Khan or James Kirkland.
     
    steviebruno, Oct 9, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 9, 2023
    #122
    Dubblechin, drenlou, Dynamicpuncher and 1 other person like this.
  3. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    And 160-175 Clenelo ain't drained ass and green 152 Clenelo.

    So 168 Clenelo, who likely rehydrates to the high 170s, wouldn't KO Floyd?

    Simple yes or no will suffice.
     
    JOKER, Oct 9, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 9, 2023
    #123
  4. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

    3,967
    1,061
    Dec 1, 2012
    No. If Jermell Charlo can survive, so can Floyd. Can he win? I would lean toward 'no', but then I remember that 168lb Canelo is still only 5'7", is a plodding counterpuncher, and would allow Floyd to work and rest when he needs to. Obviously, May he would have to come in a bit heavier than 150, but he handled 165lb Canelo just fine.

    Canelo would be the favorite, I guess, but I wouldn't be shocked if little Floyd beefed up to 153-155 and beat him 7-5.
     
    steviebruno, Oct 9, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 9, 2023
    #124
  5. SpeedKills

    SpeedKills Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,942
    1,070
    Jan 7, 2009
    Just saw a clip of Canelo vs Jose Cotto where Canelo is buzzed and doesn’t know how to defend while hurt. Wondering if the folk in this thread think he was prime here since he had over 30 fights.

    People don’t seem to understand that you need to experience something, to be experienced in it (hopefully more than once to be familiar with the situation). Practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent. Which is why fighter’s decline or stagnate when they stay fighting low level competition.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
    SpeedKills, Oct 9, 2023
    SpeedKills, Oct 9, 2023
    #125
    Loudon likes this.
  6. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

    3,967
    1,061
    Dec 1, 2012
    LOL. Canelo was 20 years old with zero championship fights back then. What point were you trying to make here?

    Canelo wasn't prime against Floyd, but Floyd was also badly faded. Did you not see that man at 130?

    You will hardly ever hear, in the history of boxing, that a 36 year old had the advantage over an undefeated 23 year old champion. Canelo had the responsibility of at least making the fight competitve and somehow failed miserably.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    #126
    guy3050, AdamT and Dynamicpuncher like this.
  7. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    Jermell Charlo was 5' 11" and 172 on the night. The fact that you don't think Floyd gets knocked out by a 168 Clenelo who's most likely close to 175 on fight night says it all. Basically, if Floyd took a dump in your morning cereal, you'd celebrate it as a life win.

    :lol:

    Floyd wouldn't even fight Clenelo at 154 and you think he survives the Clenelo that's knocked out Super Middleweights.

    :lol:
     
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    #127
  8. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    He was green and drained to death, duh.
     
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    #128
  9. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

    3,967
    1,061
    Dec 1, 2012
    165lb Canelo barely hit Floyd. Why are you so sure that another ten pounds makes such a huge difference?

    Your confidence would make all the sense in the world if we hadn't already seen them in the ring together. LOL
     
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    #129
    Dynamicpuncher and cslb like this.
  10. hoopsman

    hoopsman Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,528
    2,154
    Jul 24, 2005
    While I'm generally loathe to weigh in on any thread that bolsters the "but Floyd, yo!" nut-huggers or Canelo apologists, I think it's rather obvious that Canelo has matured as a fighter and refined his craft post-Floyd.

    That said, I wouldn't necessarily categorize Canelo as "green" at the time of the fight. Would he have benefited from more experience at the highest level? Sure, but that's not the same as a prospect stepping up for the first time against an old war-horse or fringe contender.
     
    hoopsman, Oct 10, 2023
    hoopsman, Oct 10, 2023
    #130
    Dynamicpuncher likes this.
  11. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    Weight classes exist for a reason, which is why only Crawford fans think he has a chance against Clenelo.

    Clenelo would literally break Floyd's shoulder or bicep with his arm punches and like I said, Super Middleweights aren't able to withstand Clenelo's power at 168, so Floyd ain't gonna see the second half of the fight even if he's in full survival mode. Partially landed blows would rock and hurt Floyd.

    And you saw Floyd fight a green and depleted Clenelo.
     
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    #131
  12. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

    3,967
    1,061
    Dec 1, 2012
    Canelo Alvarez isn't Mike Tyson, bro. The Canelo you are describing exists only in your most erotic fantasies.
     
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    #132
    AdamT and Dubblechin like this.
  13. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    The Floyd who ducked many fighters ain't the guy who can **** with 168 Clenelo. He wouldn't even fight Clenelo at 154 AFTER going on a tirade about how he fights guys at their best weight because he wants them to be comfortable.

    :lol:
     
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    #133
    Loudon likes this.
  14. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

    3,967
    1,061
    Dec 1, 2012
    Right... I guess he was drained against Trout and Lara, too. :)

    Unless those two pounds were from a slab of Mexican beef, Clenelo is the same guy at 152 that he was at 154.
     
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    steviebruno, Oct 10, 2023
    #134
    AdamT likes this.
  15. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,130
    Dec 18, 2019
    Clenelo was growing boy.

    Many fighters miss weight by less than a pound. It matters.

    Floyd didn't fight the best Clenelo. Glad you agree.
     
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    JOKER, Oct 10, 2023
    #135
Page 9 of 18