Is Ali the HW GOAT?

If Ali was fresh enough to beat Holmes after his whole career unfolded the gulf would be even wider

 

That would be even more insane if he did that but I don't think that would have happened even realistically.

He would have likely still slowed down a lot at that point even without Parkinson's as he still a lot of mileage and Holmes was getting better and better.

 

For me it’s Joe Louis the most dominant Champion in boxing History and then a toss up between Johnson and Ali for second and third spot. For me you also have to factor in the times in which these men fought and without a doubt both Louis and Johnson fought in eras which where far more dangerous for them than the era Ali fought in .

 

goat motormouth

 

Even though Ali's second fight with Frazier was a clinch fest (and a significant number of pundits actually think Frazier didn't lose this fight) and the second win over Liston was questionable, the fact that Ali was 2-1 against Frazier, 2-0 against Liston, and 1-0 against Foreman is in itself a compelling reason to consider Ali the greatest.

 

he was 0-2-1 against Norton, imo. That's kind of the small stain on his resume -- I don't think he actually beat Norton.

 

I agree with you. In the first fight Ali didn't take him seriously enough and clearly lost. Ali was in great shape (similar to his fight with Foreman) for the second one and the fight was essentially even. Ali was deteriorating fast after the Thrilla in Manila and clearly lost the third.

 

I have three bold words for this thread: Joe Freaking Louis!

 

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HW GOAT probably Ali, possibly Louis, not Usyk.
CW GOAT probably Usyk, possibly Evan Fields.
GOAT none of the above.

 

Pretty much. I’m not going to sit here and say ali wasn’t a very good heavyweight but he WAS NOT the greatest of all time. I think the word ‘Great’ should come with class and respect. And yes he has a very good record but he arguably lost to Ken Norton three times. And that 2nd fight with liston… Lol Come on man. He’s proof that if you yell something enough and it somehow becomes trendy to say… many people will start to go with it

 

I mean sure you don't have to call him the GOAT if you don't want to but very good is largely underselling Ali.

 

I can't really see how you don't think Ali didn't beat Norton the 2nd time.

I thought that was a close but clear win for Ali he won a majority of the early rounds and when the fight got closer at the end Ali clearly won the 12th round to seal any doubt in my mind.

I think the majority would have Ali winning the 2nd Norton fight 7-5.

In a poll here 71 percent thought Ali won and if you see the posts a few people mistakenly thought it was the 3rd fight which means it would've been even wider in favour of Ali.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/norton-vs-ali-ii.663954/

 

Yeah I thought it was 7-5 Ali. I could see a draw too maybe 6-6 but I don't think Norton won.

 

This is how i scored it.


Ken Norton vs Muhammad Ali 2

1 Ali
2 Ali
3 Ali
4 Ali
5 Norton
6 Ali
7 Norton
8 Norton
9 Ali
10 Norton
11 Norton
12 Ali

115-113 Ali

Ali looked alot better in this fight faster, fitter, and being able to use his famous footwork for all 12 rounds. Aswell as hurting and rocking Norton a few times something he didn't do at all in the first meeting.

Ali just won too many of the early rounds with his footwork and jab, and he closed the show with a good 12th round. I don't see any controversy here it was a good competitive fight but a fight Ali closely but clearly won.

I could see an argument for Norton maybe earning a draw, but anymore than that would be reaching in my opinion.