Is Ali the No.1 h2h Heavyweight?

And the ironic thing is even though that was the closest thing to a peak Ali, he was robbed of his full potential due to the battle with the Supreme Court. Like you said, Ali was utterly humiliating ranked contenders as if he were using video game cheat codes. No one else at HW did that.

As for as utterly crushing ranked opponents goes, the closest comparisons would be Louis, Liston, Tyson, and Wladmir.

-Louis and Wladmir had quantity over quality in terms of eras with long dominant reigns. They both were criticized for not having many "signature wins" or epic trilogies/dramatic moments while champion (with a few exceptions). However, they both suffered embarrassing KO losses while in their physical prime (Schmeling, Brewster, etc). They later avenged these losses and become much more well rounded and technically sound veterans but they both always put that nagging doubt in the back of your mind they were vulnerable to sudden upsets. Louis did after all get decked by Galento, went life and death with Buddy Baer, got his brain scrambled by Walcott in a fight he barely won, etc.

Likewise, Wladmir was mauled by Peter needing to run for the hills to scrape by and always struggled with aggressive iron chinned guys. Both had 2 wars with light heavyweights moving up in weight (Conn, Byrd). In fact both eras had guys moving up and grabbing titles or making names and themselves (Moore, Charles, Haye, Toney, etc), which could be further proof of the lack of overall quality in their eras. Both Wladmir and Louis ironically went out the same way, passing the torch to a younger up and coming fighter (Marciano, Joshua).

-Tyson and Liston blazed a trail on the way to the title crushing everyone in their way. They literally terrorized the division making short work of guys who should have been solid challenges on paper. They both similarly had shocking early round KO wins in title fights (Patterson, Spinks, Berbick, etc). However, both similarly lost in equally shocking fashion guys who were written off as underdogs. Neither really showed that do or die determination to avenge a loss or get off the floor to win. Both of them had phenomenal talent but it dwindled very quickly due to their reckless lifestyles outside the ring.

You could say Holmes had a similar reign to Wladmir and had a few similarities to Ali as well both in terms of styles and careers, but he wasn't as consistent as Ali. Like Wladmir he often shared an era with someone looking their head over the division with splintered titles and you 100% sure they were truly the best. For Wladmir, the most glaring example is his brother Vitali who was a respectable champion in his own right. There were also guys like Stiverne and Fury popping up toward the end. Likewise, Holmes missed a few guys such as Thomas, Tubbs, etc. Holmes also lacked major signature wins.

Then there's Rocky Marciano who was consistent my beating the guys they put in front of him, but who were those guys? He had a relatively weak era but by no means was he dominant save toward the very end when he peaked. Rocky got outboxed, cut, countered, and went life and death with many guys who weren't even considered great by his own eras standards. His best opponents were also approaching 40 and had been in many wars. He will always have an argument for top 10 in terms if achievements, but h2h? One would have to basically overlook all his many flaws to make this case. On more than a few occasions his power bailed him out of an embarrassing loss and you can't always count on that h2h because you may run into someone whose either too tough to get KO'd or has solid defensive ability.

Ali did not have these issues. You can criticize him for getting lazy toward the end of his career and having a few questionable decision wins, but the facts of the matter are that Ali was by far the most consistent heavyweight ever. He had vulnerabilities like any fighter but he always found a way to stick to his strengths and left no stone unturned in the division. There were no moments of Ali getting utterly schooled by obscure journeyman or being knocked out by unlikely underdogs. Of the 5 most dominant champions, Ali has the best record which means he's #1 as far as I'm concerned.

 

Whoever told you Ali is #1, lied.

he’s number 1 2 3 4 and 5

 

I love this post.
The Terrel fight is seriously overlooked when discussing examples of Ali's dominance during his peak years. Here was a top quality contender that Ali utterly humiliated. Poor Ernie the Octopus was never quite the same.

 

He is the one I have at the top of both my H2H list and my list evaluating greatness amongst the heavies he simply was the greatest.

 

Congratulations! You've won the award for the stupidest posts I think I've ever seen where the poster wasn't trolling, and actually meant what they said. You had A LOT of competition but you earned it!

 

Excellent thread. I'm inclined to say yes Ali is the #1 heavyweight H2H. He's by far the most proven against the most styles. He beat your sluggers, swarmers, SHWs, counter-punchers, cuties, pure boxers, etc.

The fact that the best counter-argument this thread had to offer is his bout against Mildenberger, where he dominated, and won all but 2-3 rounds en route to a 12 round stoppage, reinforces my view. Actually laughed out loud at this horrendous argument.

Other contenders are Louis, Liston, Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Fury, among others.

 

Ali
Lewis
Liston
Holmes
Tyson
Foreman
Louis
Fraizer
Wlad
Vitali

Fury could be up there in the future

 

Ali is hard to beat for any heavyweight. His style is a nightmare for many and his psychological warfare was very effective.

Ali
Lewis
Tyson
Foreman
Holmes
Vitali

Are in my top 6 in no order ... These I believe are the elite and at their best are very difficult for anyone to beat.

 

For me yes he is.

 

I think a convincing case can be made for both Mike Tyson and Joe Louis. Although Ali as number 1 is perfectly fine for me.

 

VK is the best IMO. He was never down, rarely lost a round, one of the highest KO percentages and workrates of the Heavies. Ali loses to him.

 

He wasn't that out of his prime considering he came back in his late 20s. About the same as Fury is after his layoff. This excuse will always be made for Ali and just gives him another layer of bs mystique. Think about what he actually did, his prime was in an era of old and past prime fighters. Even Liston was well out of his prime. He just came back in a stronger era with fighters who figured him out.

 

He should have lost to Cooper tbh.

 

Vitali didn't go life and death with Byrd lol he was totally outclassing him and pulled out due to a torn shoulder.