Is Ali the No.1 h2h Heavyweight?

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Here's how it goes: Ali decisions prime Liston, Ali's speed being the difference. But if Ali somehow makes a mistake, it's bye bye Ali and a Liston win by KO
Holmes wins a split decision vs Ali, his jab being the key factor that helps him win
Ali decisions Weaver. T
Tyson KOs Ali or wins by unanimous decision.
Holyfield decisions Ali.
Ali could very well decision pre-Steward Lewis, but at the same time Lewis might go all out and KO Ali.
Post-Steward Lewis decisions Ali.
Wlad decisions Ali in a boring fight.
Fury decisions Ali with ease.

 

This is a good point that is often overlooked. Tyson only had one speed, one style, one gear. He always punched ferociously at top speed with all the snap and power he could muster. If you can manage to overwhelm your opponent and take them out early, that's all good. But if you can't, you're going to both A) tired and B) giving your opponent time to adjust to your style not matter how fast or powerful you are--because Tyson did more or less the same thing and followed the same formula every fight. Cus D Amato drilled it into his skull which combinations to throw and had him follow a very strict monotonous regiment.

Sometimes it benefits you to not always put so much weight behind every shot. Throw a few lighter punches to save energy or to distract your opponent, set something up, etc. Going full throttle immediately has its consequences. If the opponent survives and they have good ring IQ, it's just a matter of time before they memorize your attack pattern and bad habits.

There was a poster years ago, might have been on this forum or a different one, I wish I could credit him for saying: Tyson was trained to knock people out, not to fight them. Always thought that was such a brilliant assessment. While it's often overblown and inaccurate to claim Tyson had zero heart, there is truth in the statement that when it came to digging deep and "figuring out" how to win, Tyson was lacking in this area. Not for lack of chin or heart, but a lack of imagination and an ability to break a guy down if he couldn't knock him out with the first couple of bombs he landed. His lack of inside fighting and outside fighting meant that his pendulum swinging style was always doomed from the start to either win most fights dramatically or get countered and shut down hard. It also didn't help he couldn't fight backing up and slowly started to abandon his jab even back in the 80's.

The handful of areas he excelled at were so fascinating people failed to notice the glaring areas where he was lacking. And this is why there's no way he could have been the h2h goat in a round robin championship. At some point there'd be another Douglas or Holyfield type boxer who figures out the hole in the game plan and exploits it.

 

This is a strange statement. When you are the smaller man in the ring and you have a huge advantage in hand and foot speed, it's even easier to use a stick and move style. Especially when the opponents are often slow and heavy with little head movement which is the case for many modern guys. They also would not be able to match Ali's pace as their stamina is usually suspect.

Lennox and Wladmir would be the biggest challenges, but even they wouldn't have a walk in the park with 60's Ali. To suggest it wouldn't be competitive based on his 1 loss to Frazier or Norton (which took place in the 70's, not 60's) who are the polar opposites style wise of Lennox and Wladmir, is illogical.

 

"Brainwashed"? You don't even know what the word means looking at the context of the post. You're simply ignorant and have poor writing skills. It is definitely your fault if multiple people have complained that they have no clue what you wrote.

 

And this is based on which performance of Fury's? Please explain stylistically why Fury wins "with ease" and please for the love of God don't say he wins simply because of his weight and height.

 

So you are sure he doesn't beat someone who he had as sparring partner when Holmes was 25 and Ali closing in on 33? Did you not know that or are you trolling?

 

Don't think you should waste your time on that guy.

 

I would conisder Ali vs Holmes a close fight. Ali definitely wouldn't be a great favorite.
Did you know Holmes started boxing at 19? Ali had won LHW Olympic gold at the age of 18.

A lot of young unknown prospects act as sparring partners for money. If one were to believe Holmes then he "held his own" against Ali.

I am sure you know everything I have said above but your Ali-worship made you forget that for a while.

 

That's an astute observation.

 

I believe it is the one against Klitschko.

 

Your exact words were "He is not beating Lewis, Klitschko or even Holmes" which certainly sounds like you're sure that Holmes would win. It's certainly a more definite statement than "Ali definitely wouldn't be a great favorite".

 

Ali fans sound so sure of Ali beating everyone. He would lose more often than win against Holmes.

Klitschko 2.0 would shut him down completely.

 

This is based on their styles. Both are mainly out-boxers, and I see Fury as being more skilled.
And Fury's height, reach and weight do give him a big advantage cause he is skilled enough to use them to his advantage. Ali would have to be the one trying to come in. He wouldn't enjoy a height and reach advantage like he did for most of his career. And he doesn't punch hard enough to trouble Fury.

 

Yes he would. Wlad would pop that jab all night, and if Ali somehow gets close, Wlad pounds him with his left hook and straight right.
If Wlad manages to land a flush power punch with his right, Ali goes to sleep.

 

its cause of people being blind they wont see ali would have trouble when he had trouble with joe I dont see joe having a good time in 90s