Is Ali the No.1 h2h Heavyweight?

yup your right I said that before lennox is the only one I would say is up there in skill with fury who is tall the 2 tallest skilled boxers ever

ali had trouble with George a man who tech was always trash and slow it was no reason ali should have had that much trouble with that man

that legend troll wanted you to leave out weight and height cause he knows it would be advantage they do it all the time with George matches but when it comes to fury the tallest boxer ever with skills leave it out no we wont leave it out it adds to his skills

 

What has any of this to do with anything we have discussed? You're all over the place. Go back to General, that's a cosier environment for you kids. To quote a sketch that problem aired a decade or so before you were born, "Bye, bye":

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You actually haven't discussed anything of worth beyond the same tripe repeated by Classic Boxing "experts".

 

Yeah, I'm amazed when some people look at Foreman and think he's some kind of skilled beast.

 

Fury is more skilled based on what? In which performance speicifcally does he demonstrate that he has more skill than Ali? In which areas of boxing is Fury better than Ali?

I wasn't suggesting height and reach aren't advantages. But if both Ali and Fury are using a speed based elusive style, carrying around 260 lbs of lard means he will have an obvious DISadvantage.

He doesn't punch hard enough to trouble Fury? Ali stopped iron chinned guys like Bonavena and Foreman and was the only man to stop either of them. Every opponent he beats has bruises, cuts, and major swelling all over their face. You're not being honest if you think Fury is just going to absorb or walk through his shots (Fury does swell easily too in case you didn't know). Besides, Ali wouldn't be trying to KO Fury, he'd be trying to outbox, counter, and frustrate him. If Ali gets on his bike, Fury would need to impose his will. Ali is the faster man even if he isn't the taller one. Are you under some sort of impression that a shorter fighter automatically has to be aggressive and rush toward the opponent? Have you seen Floyd vs Corrales? Or better yet, Ali vs taller heavier opponents such as Terrel or Mathis or Bugner?

 

Wow really? Because neither man looked very good in that fight. Not to mention Klitschko was nearly 40 years old.

Even the Wilder 2 performance would have been a better pick, and there's no way Fury would have been able to inflict that much damage on Ali. come on, dude.

No offense, but I'd watch the Klitschko fight again. Fury looked quintessentially average, even five years before that he would have been knocked silly by Wlad.

 

I'd be more inclined to believe this about Wlad than Fury.

I could see 92 Holy winning 2 out of three. Louis could decision him, so could Lewis. Holmes is certainly a possibility.

I just don't see the 20th century crop of heavyweights beating him. None of them have had wins over anybody anywhere near Foreman, Liston, Frazier...

 

Ali might have better hand speed, but the difference isn't that significant.
And given that he's the smaller man, how is he gonna land his shots if he doesn't come in close ?!
And given that Fury could withstand Wilder (who's top 5 all time in terms of punching power), he will certainly be able to withstand Ali (who's not even top 30). And please don't bring up Bonavena and Foreman. Bonavena was an average boxer and Ali caught him in the last round, when Bonavena was tired as hell. And Foreman gassed out, that's the only reason Ali took him out.
As for Ali outboxing him, how's he gonna do that ?! Fury can just stay behind his jab, and Ali needs to land somehow. Fury can also wear him out in the clinches. And Ali getting on his bike won't do him any good. He needs to land, running in circles like an idiot won't help him in that regard.
As for Ali vs Terrel or Mathis or Bugner, how can you even bring up such bad examples. Fury is superior to them by a country mile.
I'm not saying Fury will win just cause he's taller and heavier, he will win cause he has the skillset to use that to his advantage.
And Floyd vs Corrales, really ?!?? Floyd is a million times more skilled than Ali and pretty much 99% of the boxers that ever lived.
Floyd is top 10 all time p4p skillwise.

 

Ali's wins over those men are also to be taking with a grain of salt given the circumstances he achieved them in.
Liston was old, did not prepare, injured his shoulder and took a dive.
Foreman punched himself out.
Frazier was almost blind in one eye and Ali cheated by excessively holding and pushing on Frazier's head.

And I see Fury beating both Foreman and Frazier. Liston will be his toughest fight, and it can go either way.

The 70s guys are overrated, the 90s had the best HWs ever.

 

Ring ring Steve Cunningham.

Thats a performance that you can't just throw under the rug. Fury himself admitted he struggled with Cunningham because Cunningham was hard to hit and mobile.
^^^
https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksp...ight-steve-cunningham-wladimir-klitschko/amp/
Fury wasn't in his prime but Ali is levels above Cunningham in every department so that balances it out. And in addition to that featherfisted Cunningham put Fury on the canvas and stunned him badly in the exchanges and quite literally had him hanging on for dear life

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So saying Ali doesn't have the power to bother Fury doesn't make any sense


Fury was also down on most peoples cards before the stoppage which is suprising considering Fury has all the physical advantages am i right ? lol. It's because small heavyweights can give bigger heavyweights trouble with their slickness and speed. In a fight against prime Ali if Fury was down on the cards i doubt he'd be getting a KO. We have direct evidence of an inferior Ali sized heavyweight giving Fury issues so i don't see why you're writing Ali off.

Just because Fury outboxed robotic stationary gunshy Wladimir doesn't automatically mean he'd beat Ali. Styles make fights.

 

What? You're serious? You honestly think Fury's hand speed is close to 60's Ali and the difference isn't significant?

Yeah, you clearly don't watch enough boxing if you're asking this question. You can pop a larger man with a jab and then dance out the way if you're the faster man. This has happened countless times in both the pros and amateurs. Even I can do it and I'm no speed demon and certainly not as talented as a prime Ali.

I can post multiple fights where this happens on youtube if you'd like.

You're missing the point. I wasn't saying Ali had otherworly punching power or that he knocks Fury around the ring. Im jjust saying that Fury shrugging off Ali's shots is comedy given that Fury's face swells up easily and his chin isn't on the same level as guys like Bonavena or Foreman. Liston, Lyle, and Quarry also got wobbled and badly hurt by Ali and they had solid chins as well. Quarry certainly has more proven chin than Fury who has like 2 elite punchers on his whole resume, wilder and klitschko. The klitschko fight Fury barely got his and klitschko was old and gunshy.

When Fury fought Wilder in the first fight, he did show a lot of guts. The problem was Wilder is a very sloppy boxer. He has A level power but C level skill and finishing ability. So it was (relatively) easy for Fury to clinch, run, and recover adter being dropped. Some also feel the 12th round knockdown was a long count. In the 2nd fight Fury didn't get caught by anything and smothered Wilder's punches forcing him to back up.

No Fury cannot simply stay behind his jab. Ali has the faster hands and better head movement. You're acting like Ali is going to just stand there helpless seeing Fury jab and unable to slip it or counter it. Ali slipped and countered the ATG jab of Liston who had a similar reach to Fury.

This is actually debatable. Ali had tremendous strength and was very good in the clinches. He is also the better inside fighter and won't just stand there getting leaned on.

He could land pretty easily given Fury is 260 lbs and is slower. Ever seen Ali circle and throw a jab?

I wasn't saying those guys are equal to Fury. The point is simply being taller does not mean Ali is going to short circuit and have no way of landing.

I asked you how is Fury "more skilled" than Ali and you failed to respond. A good big man beats a good little man if he's equal or better. You haven't explained what Fury does that is better.

The flip side to this is Fury never beat anyone remotely as good as Ali either.

Wow, you are not very good at comprehending what I'm saying. I used Floyd vs Corrales to answer your bizarre question of how a shorter fighter lands on a taller one without having to constantly step in. It happens all the time.

 

floyd is the best skilled boxer it's ever been he mastered his style
ali never did
just like mike mastered the peek a boo

lots of crazy trolls they will say how joe louis could beat lennox and any of person after his era anybody with a brain knows joe would be destroyed by 70s-90s

 

good job destroying these trolls I feel the same George is hyped had no defense slow and bad tech

joe was skilled but wasnt tough for taking big shots

earnie is named the hardest puncher even though it's been boxers after him who hit harder and do damage with way less punches and better at finishing

jim was good wasnt overrated more like underrated took less shots then ali vs George but gets no credit they act like that match didnt happen

 

Sometimes I wonder if White Bomber is the same person as moneythedoof. Either way, it's too bad they can't accept a good schooling from guys like Glass gracefully.

Great post.

 

If your take away from the fights with Norton is that ali didn't have a good ring IQ, I'm not interested in any opinion you have on boxing ever.